Keeping Hands Up

[Azulx]

There is a student at my school, who is currently struggling keeping his hand up when he kicks. This is especially prevalent when roundhouse kicking. His arms either drop to his side or his guard opens up and his arms go into a position where it looks like he's flexing. Are there any drills that help with keeping your hands up? I know it's common for beginners to move there arms a lot when kicking, because they haven't developed control of their bodies. Anything helps.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When I am holding a target for students, I often carry a second one in my other hand. If they drop their hands, I smack them in the head with it. Just like they'd get smacked in the head if they drop their hands sparring, but it doesn't hurt.
But the best drill is just 10,000,000 kicks, making sure the hands stay up. Start with 1.

 

[MAfreak]

in the beginning practicing the kicks more slowly with more concentration on the arms.
also as a balance training so they mustn't counterbalance so much with their arms.
depending on what style you teach i'd say often it's also the training method of punching with what is in japanese called "hikite", bringing back the non punching fist to the flank. it might bringing people to the habit to make it similar in sparring/fighting.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

I've had lots of students with the same issue. I second Dirty Dog on bopping them on the head when they drop their arms. Not enought to hurt, but it annoys them. They'll keep them up out of self-preservation... which is the whole point.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I've had lots of students with the same issue. I second Dirty Dog on bopping them on the head when they drop their arms. Not enought to hurt, but it annoys them. They'll keep them up out of self-preservation... which is the whole point.

Often, (especially with younger students), they respond to being popped on the head by bringing their guard WAY up. In which case, I pop them in the ribs/stomach. Helps them learn to guard properly.
And since it doesn't hurt (unlike getting smacked sparring), they think it's fun, which helps keep them interested in kicking drills. Which can be fairly boring, for young/new students.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There is a student at my school, who is currently struggling keeping his hand up when he kicks. This is especially prevalent when roundhouse kicking. His arms either drop to his side or his guard opens up and his arms go into a position where it looks like he's flexing. Are there any drills that help with keeping your hands up? I know it's common for beginners to move there arms a lot when kicking, because they haven't developed control of their bodies. Anything helps.

Have the student reach up and grab the lapels of their own gi. This is a 'close enough' position to keeping one's hands up, to get used to moving the body without throwing the arms around for counterbalance. Tell the student not to let go.

Once they are used to that, they should be able to keep their hands in a head-protective position. It can take time, and sometimes there is backsliding. When that happens, go back to lapel grabbing.

As others mentioned, a foam bat to bop the student in the head when they fail to protect their noggin can be effective. But until they can get the concept of finding their balance and generating power without throwing their arms around, it will just make them frustrated, in my limited experience.

 

[marques]

...Anything helps.

Don't worry, professionals also do it.

More seriously, I use a trick. I feint a cross (or just move the arm up) before the right kick. It opens the mid section (body) of opponent, distract him, and helps my kick.
Other trick is punching with the back of the hand (sorry, don't know the names) right before kicking. It blocks the opponent vision, and I am already half rotated before starting the kick.
In both cases, if my arm is 'punching', it cannot be dropping. Or it only can drops after punching. And may help the motion... (If I don't do it, I have no balance, drop my hands - at least a bit - or just kick the guard of opponent, I mean training partner.)
I hope it is clear. But not sure...

 

[MAfreak]

back of the hand is in english just called backfist; in japanese it's called the uraken uchi.
a combination including a cross punch followed by a kick with the leg on the same side is a popular combi in karate and kickboxing. the hip is already turned in then but from the arm position, its not a guard. but also not swinging the arm around.

 

[marques]

@MAfreak , thanks. once I used the wrong name. So now I avoid it if don't have time to check up.
I know that a combination is not a kick. Everyone knows. But just the intension of a cross, a tiny movement, a feint, helps me in many ways. Without it and doing fast, I drop my hands (or my balance)...

 

[MAfreak]

ok i might articulated bad again (my english), i meant "at least, having the arm straightened from a punch is better than swinging it around for counterbalance."

 

[marques]

ok i might articulated bad again (my english), i meant "at least, having the arm straightened from a punch is better than swinging it around for counterbalance."

What I do, too.
Anyway, I think @Bill Mattocks 'style' is the best starting point.

 

[drop bear]

If you are flailing while throwing kicks i would not even worry about their arms untill they are kicking on balance and therefore actually able to do something about where their arms go.

We kick with one arm down to pump but also move off line to kick.

 

[ShawnP]

i had this problem when i first began, my instructor took his belt off and tied it around my neck and the other end to my wrist to keep my arm from dropping to my side and just enough slack to keep it somewhat in a guard position, it took me a while to keep myself from choking myself while kicking and i fell a few times on my face but it worked for me, now i usally keep my arm up and elbow tucked. this might not be a good way for others since i was friends with my instructor and i trusted his ways.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Like most problems, there are three ways to solve it:

1. Random attempts to fix it. I haven't heard any of those here.
2. Try a high-percentage fix that usually works (or always, but faster with some people). Things like bopping with the shield fit into this group.
3. Attack the root of the problem. Of course, you have to find it first, and sometimes it is both faster and easier to use the high-percentage fixes first, and only go to this method if those don't work.

I mention the three ways simply to point out that I'm not saying it's at all a bad choice to use a pat answer that often works well. Beyond that point (and for those of us who are wonks for this sort of thing), it helps to know what's causing it. The student may have poor balance (in which case, balance work should come first, before they develop bad habits). They may have poor isolation (using one part of the body separate from others), in which case exercises that have high isolation can help - in this case, exercises that require moving the legs but not the hands. They may even simply have poor arm control, which would lead to the opposite set of exercises.

Again, often it's just more effective to have a common tool that you use when teaching kicks (like the second pad), and only bother to diagnose the problem if it exists after the first few exercises with the pad.

(That's way too many words. I think I need more wine.)

 

[JowGaWolf]

When I am holding a target for students, I often carry a second one in my other hand. If they drop their hands, I smack them in the head with it. Just like they'd get smacked in the head if they drop their hands sparring, but it doesn't hurt.
But the best drill is just 10,000,000 kicks, making sure the hands stay up. Start with 1.

I do the same thing. If the habit is to bring the arms down then the solution would be to hit the student when the guard comes down. Make the hit hard enough to cause discomfort but not enough to really hurt. The student may not learn if the hit is too soft.

 

[Buka]

No debate about keeping your hands up. There's a difference, though, between keeping your hands up when punching as compared to when kicking.
In punching, it's just good training to make it habit, but when throwing kicks it's also about resisting what the body wants to do.

Proprioception makes the arms counterbalance the kick to keep the body from falling on a sudden shift of balance - one leg suddenly leaving the ground and your body now being on one leg. It's physiology, just like when you walk on an icy patch and slip - your arms snap to a position that will try to catch your balance from a quick and sudden shift of your body line. You never think of where your arms should go on that icy step, they just go there really quick. Even though a kick is a trained movement, our arms want to go where they're programmed to physiologically. The faster you kick, the faster the arms want to move to counter balance. Look on youtube or tapes/whatever of the fights of the best martial guys around. Watch their arms when they're really kicking, there's always that counterbalance of at least one arm, sometimes both. It's especially evident in slow mo. And the higher the kick, the more you see it. We all do it. And sometimes we get smacked by a counter. It's a constant battle to keep our hands up.

My boxing trainer used to have me grab my ears to get in the habit of keeping my hands up. That's why I look like this now.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No debate about keeping your hands up. There's a difference, though, between keeping your hands up when punching as compared to when kicking.
In punching, it's just good training to make it habit, but when throwing kicks it's also about resisting what the body wants to do.

Proprioception makes the arms counterbalance the kick to keep the body from falling on a sudden shift of balance - one leg suddenly leaving the ground and your body now being on one leg. It's physiology, just like when you walk on an icy patch and slip - your arms snap to a position that will try to catch your balance from a quick and sudden shift of your body line. You never think of where your arms should go on that icy step, they just go there really quick. Even though a kick is a trained movement, our arms want to go where they're programmed to physiologically. The faster you kick, the faster the arms want to move to counter balance. Look on youtube or tapes/whatever of the fights of the best martial guys around. Watch their arms when they're really kicking, there's always that counterbalance of at least one arm, sometimes both. It's especially evident in slow mo. And the higher the kick, the more you see it. We all do it. And sometimes we get smacked by a counter. It's a constant battle to keep our hands up.

And to some extent, the hands should come down some for some kicks. It's not as simple as not bringing your hands down. It's a matter of keeping your hands in the right position to provide the most protection for the parts of your body that exposed at that point in time (a position which changes constantly...). But dropping both hands down around your hips is virtually always incorrect.

 

[MI_martialist]

Start all kicks from a formal seated posture, and in the case of roundhouse kick, use a bench, or low table from the formal seated position to train in trajectory, optimal sequencing, and hand position.

 

[Buka]

Start all kicks from a formal seated posture, and in the case of roundhouse kick, use a bench, or low table from the formal seated position to train in trajectory, optimal sequencing, and hand position.

I'm not familiar with the term, what is a formal seated posture, please? Thanks.

 

[Azulx]

Start all kicks from a formal seated posture, and in the case of roundhouse kick, use a bench, or low table from the formal seated position to train in trajectory, optimal sequencing, and hand position.

So you're asking me to tell him to sit on a bench and tell him to kick the air?