Keep on Kicking!

[RobinTKD]

People often say (our TKD section included!) that kicking isn't practical, that in self defence situations we should use our hands rather than our feet etc. Well there's some here that need no proof as to the effectiveness of kicking, but I found a video that in some respects highlights just how useful it can be.

Kyokushin Karate has a pretty good reputation amongst most martial artists, having some good conditioning drills and knockdown tournaments being full contact with little to no protective clothing, well this is the video, a kyokushin video, notice how every KO and every fight ending technique is a kick, not just to the head/body but also to the inside and outside thigh. I'm aware that this is a sport not an SD situation, and there are other actors to consider (like the fact that I would NEVER use the sacrifice kicks in the video), but it just goes to show the power and respect of kicking in other arts.

I'm not entirely sure what my point is here, but just felt worth saying right now.

And excuse the awful music too

 

[Cyriacus]

They are also limited to punching the body.
But, im nice:

Make sure to watch 1:40 if nothing else. Theres also a denizen examples in MMA. Kicking works, yes. The reason some people dont like it is because it comes with more risks than punching.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Usually people who say kicking doesn't work don't know how to kick. A good tkd black belt kicks real hard and real fast. That's gotta be effective

 

[ATC]

Well the one thing that I notice about this sport is that they don't even pretend to have a defense. They just stand there and may the toughest man win. There is really nothing but stand and kick or punch, no movement what so ever. No bob and weave, no angle away from an attack, nothing, just stand kick, punch, get kicked get punched. Rock em sock em robot style. But they are tough

 

[RobinTKD]

They are also limited to punching the body.
But, im nice:

Make sure to watch 1:40 if nothing else. Theres also a denizen examples in MMA. Kicking works, yes. The reason some people dont like it is because it comes with more risks than punching.

It looks much nicer with the punches to the head I'll definitely agree. I also agree that kicking does come with greater risk which is why I like to highlight the amount of low kicks that were ending fights in the video I posted. Thanks for sharing!

Usually people who say kicking doesn't work don't know how to kick. A good tkd black belt kicks real hard and real fast. That's gotta be effective

Yup, I remember when I was a yellow belt and I thought I had a pretty fast and powerful kick, I cringe when I think back to it now!

Well the one thing that I notice about this sport is that they don't even pretend to have a defense. They just stand there and may the toughest man win. There is really nothing but stand and kick or punch, no movement what so ever. No bob and weave, no angle away from an attack, nothing, just stand kick, punch, get kicked get punched. Rock em sock em robot style. But they are tough

There was a bit more movement in Cyriacus's video, but I think one of the reasons Kyokushin gets such a tough reputation is because they just stand and take the punishment, I'd personally try to make sure I was nowhere near the kick, and work the angles as you say. It's quite rare to see people even use a kick to switch stance and/or position in kyokushin. It makes for some exciting fights though!

 

[Cyriacus]

Well the one thing that I notice about this sport is that they don't even pretend to have a defense. They just stand there and may the toughest man win. There is really nothing but stand and kick or punch, no movement what so ever. No bob and weave, no angle away from an attack, nothing, just stand kick, punch, get kicked get punched. Rock em sock em robot style. But they are tough

Yes - Kyokushin uses conditioning over defense. I suspect thats why theyre so tough, even if it undoubtably comes at a price

 

[Manny]

Kick are harder than pucnches. I rember one night when teaching full power kicks aimed to the legs, I asked one of my studentes to grab a dummy (kicking shiled) and place it over his tight, I kicked hard the dummy and my student (a marron belt) felt to the ground!! I dn't harm him in anyway the kicking shiled cushioned my kick but the power was there, the student went to the floor.

Manny

 

[DennisBreene]

It looks much nicer with the punches to the head I'll definitely agree. I also agree that kicking does come with greater risk which is why I like to highlight the amount of low kicks that were ending fights in the video I posted. Thanks for sharing!



Yup, I remember when I was a yellow belt and I thought I had a pretty fast and powerful kick, I cringe when I think back to it now!



There was a bit more movement in Cyriacus's video, but I think one of the reasons Kyokushin gets such a tough reputation is because they just stand and take the punishment, I'd personally try to make sure I was nowhere near the kick, and work the angles as you say. It's quite rare to see people even use a kick to switch stance and/or position in kyokushin. It makes for some exciting fights though!

I think the videos were great and open up several avenues for discussion. As a boxing analogy, think Joe Frazier, not Mohammed Ali. If I understand boxing a little (and I would love to see a skilled boxer weigh in on this), conditioning is integral to defense. You have to train for contact. I don't think the kicks were remarkably fast, legends like Mike Stone, Wallace et al., could be nearly invisible when you watched them. These fighters had technical elements that make them effective. They had extraordinarily easy reach and strength. It looks as though they could have as easily reached their targets if they stood on their base leg and slowly kicked. Ie, they placed their kicks rather then threw them. This seems consistant with what I have been reading about modern stretch theory. Relaxation and extension during contraction of the agonist (kicking) muscles is opposed by reflex contraction of the antagonist musles to protect the leg from injury. These kickers had excellent muscle development. It appears that proprioreceptors in the antagonist muscle group read the strength of the agonist group. The stronger the agonist group the more the antagonist will relax and let the limb extend. In short, if you want to increase your passive stretch, your active stretch and your active reach, strengthen the muscles. An abundance of strength makes it easy to lift the limb and extend it with force. We're used to that with our arms and it's no surprise to see boxers with very developed arms. It's the same with the legs. I also wondered, while watching the exchange of punches, if a trained boxer would find their technique much of a challenge.

 

[Manny]

I want to share a thoght I have about kicks and kicking, this is my way of thinking maybe I am wrong or not but let me tell you.

It's not easy for me to kick the face/head I am not the guy I used to be when I was in my teens and mid twenties, even in those days I could kick high but was not easy but I have some flexibility and trained hard and I was tall enought to kick some one on the face with right timing. However, I think it will be silly to punch a guy in the tigh for example, why? because the arm and hand is not built to reach something below the waist standing, that's why it's easier to us to slap in the head someone than punching of the knee for example, in the other had legs and feet are designed to stand up and walk or run so they must be on the floor so that's why I think legs are designed to kick to the head, it's just not natural thing to do. That's why I feel kicks are the best aimed low so we can not loose our balance easily and it's not easy to be taken when performing a low kick.

Yes a decent kick can easily finish a fight ( I know this of first hand) when deliverid to the face/head area, however kicking to the head is something I will not try in a street fight, the risk is to high to be taken and driven to the floor.

Manny

 

[DennisBreene]

I want to share a thoght I have about kicks and kicking, this is my way of thinking maybe I am wrong or not but let me tell you.

It's not easy for me to kick the face/head I am not the guy I used to be when I was in my teens and mid twenties, even in those days I could kick high but was not easy but I have some flexibility and trained hard and I was tall enought to kick some one on the face with right timing. However, I think it will be silly to punch a guy in the tigh for example, why? because the arm and hand is not built to reach something below the waist standing, that's why it's easier to us to slap in the head someone than punching of the knee for example, in the other had legs and feet are designed to stand up and walk or run so they must be on the floor so that's why I think legs are designed to kick to the head, it's just not natural thing to do. That's why I feel kicks are the best aimed low so we can not loose our balance easily and it's not easy to be taken when performing a low kick.

Yes a decent kick can easily finish a fight ( I know this of first hand) when deliverid to the face/head area, however kicking to the head is something I will not try in a street fight, the risk is to high to be taken and driven to the floor.

Manny

I agree, but then if you had said that you were perfectly comfortable kicking to the head and did it all the time, I'd agree with that too. It all depends on individual skill and an honest assessment of what works for you. I was always a suboptimal head kicker and gravitated to counter fighting and targets of opportunity. I'm a big fan of cheating when the chips are down.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I tend to assume that people who say you can't kick effectively in a self defense situation are actually saying that they personally cannot do so. I know I can, because I have done so.

It all comes down to what works for you, as an individual. Hopefully, people who are interested in self defense take the time to honestly appraise their strengths and weaknesses and train according to that.

 

[Gorilla]

I tend to assume that people who say you can't kick effectively in a self defense situation are actually saying that they personally cannot do so. I know I can, because I have done so.

It all comes down to what works for you, as an individual. Hopefully, people who are interested in self defense take the time to honestly appraise their strengths and weaknesses and train according to that.

Right on!

 

[Rumy73]

Can we **** or get off the pot with this repetitive argument about dojang applications versus self defense. Anyone with half a brain understands the difference.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Can we **** or get off the pot with this repetitive argument about dojang applications versus self defense. Anyone with half a brain understands the difference.

And what do those with a full brain understand?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can we **** or get off the pot with this repetitive argument about dojang applications versus self defense. Anyone with half a brain understands the difference.

So what, in your (half a?) brain is the difference?

 

[Rumy73]

If I have tell spell out the differences between controlled sparring and fighting without rules in the street, you should promptly resign from teaching martial arts.

 

[Rumy73]

C

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Your legs are not only designed to be used for "kicking". You can use it for bite, sticky, scoop, sweep, cut, hook, lift, twist, spring, break, block, ... Your leg can perform 20 different kind of functions. Yout foot can also perform 20 different kind of functions.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If I have tell spell out the differences between controlled sparring and fighting without rules in the street, you should promptly resign from teaching martial arts.

I dont teach martial arts, as my name suggests, I'm a disciple So, can you please teach me? If I don't learn from your wise words, I don't believe I will ever get better.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Your legs are not only designed to be used for "kicking". You can use it for bite, sticky, scoop, sweep, cut, hook, lift, twist, spring, break, block, ... Your leg can perform 20 different kind of functions. Yout foot can also perform 20 different kind of functions.

How do you bite with your leg? What does sticky mean? And what are the 20 different functions? I only see 11, not 40. As I'm not an effective kicker, I would like to learn all 20 and their uses. Thank you :asian: