Kaysi Fighting Methods?

[UqaabKamikaze]

I am totally unaware of this. Heard about it. Searched internet found nothing. Can anyone help?

 

[elder999]

Maybe 'cause ya spelled it wrong?
Keysi World

 

[oftheherd1]

If you are referring to the Keysi Fighting Method, you might try kaysi fighting method - Bing where you will find several references, of which one interesting one is Learn about the Keysi Fighting Method (KFM) - Black Belt Wiki which I found interesting since it also mentions a co-founder, Andy Norman, who is stated to have started the Defence Lab. The Defence Lab was mentioned in another thread recently.

I see that Elder has given you another site to look at.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

I guess, then, this method is without forms or Kara.
Concept is like that of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan or Jeet June Do.
Reacting to situations in most suitable way.

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[Flying Crane]

So I perused one of the wesites and read the description.

It is described as something that requires a lot of leg strength and upper body strength. If that is a true assessment then it automatically limits who might find it useful, and suggested that pure physical strength is the main driving force, rather than good technique and efficient body mechanics.

I also see that it says it is based on instinct responses (my paraphrasing there, I don't recall the exact wording). How do you teach instinct? If it's instinct, then it's already there. If it needs to be trained and taught, then it's not instinct.

In my opinion, instinctive responses are not often highly effective. I guess that is why we train in martial systems: methods that are ultimately more effective are often not instinctive, so they need to be taught and trained and the skill needs to be developed.

I don't know anything about this keysi thing, maybe it's good, maybe not. But I do find some odd things in the description.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

What I picture is, simulating attacks on the disciple until he developed an instinctive working response under the influence of adrenaline.
Kidding, I cannot understand that thing until someone practicing it lay down the fundamental concept of it.

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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What I picture is, simulating attacks on the disciple until he developed an instinctive working response under the influence of adrenaline.
Kidding, I cannot understand that thing until someone practicing it lay down the fundamental concept of it.

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There are two type of "instinctual response theories" that I know of. The first is similar to what you are saying, where you have someone drill specific responses so often, that it takes the place of their instinct. This could be useful if it works, since it allows them to "instinctually" react in an effective way. The second is finding our what a person's instinctual reaction is, then work on responses based on the assumption that they will react in that way initially, and what to do afterwards/how to turn it slightly into something that works. The drawback to this is that they may not be practicing the 'most effective' responses, and it requires a very individualized approach (I believe, I have not trained using this method), but it also doesn't have to fight a person's natural instinct which should be more useful when they are in actual danger.

I've got no idea which one the Keysi fighting method is referring to (or if they have a third meaning I don't know), but I hope that helps.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

Only a trained martial artist or soldier can behave effectively in dangerous situation. How can it be taught to a normal person without the knowledge of fighting styles. If so, then how is it different from other martial arts?

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[Tez3]

We had some fighters from Keysi fight on one of our MMA fight nights, they were awful. All lost and all seemed at a loss. It may have been just have been those students and that instructor but they didn't leave a good impression. They did swagger around a bit before the fights, they brought lots of supporters all dressed in 'Keysi' hoodies, they were very sure of themselves. Now, no one has to do or compete in MMA but if you are you should have been much more prepared than they were for 'combat'.

 

[Tez3]

Only a trained martial artist or soldier can behave effectively in dangerous situation

That's really not true in a number of ways. For example if a dangerous dog is attacking children would you expect all the bystanders just to stand there because they aren't trained martial artists or soldiers? If a swimmer is caught in a rip tide would only soldiers and martial artists be able to help?
Are all soldiers and martial artists all the same that having a punch thrown at them makes them leap into action and not freeze, do you think non martial artists and soldiers can't fight?

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

I said effectively.

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[UqaabKamikaze]

That's really not true in a number of ways. For example if a dangerous dog is attacking children would you expect all the bystanders just to stand there because they aren't trained martial artists or soldiers? If a swimmer is caught in a rip tide would only soldiers and martial artists be able to help?
Are all soldiers and martial artists all the same that having a punch thrown at them makes them leap into action and not freeze, do you think non martial artists and soldiers can't fight?

I said effectively and my context was of a fight. I am a football player and if someone suddenly throw ball at me, my quick reaction would be stepping back and taking and controlling it by my feet, while I saw a beginners or non players to hit ball with both hand to avoid the hit to upper body.

 

[Tez3]

Only a trained martial artist or soldier can behave effectively in dangerous situation

You didn't say 'fight' you said 'dangerous situation'

I said effectively and my context was of a fight.

If that was your context you should say so and not 'in a dangerous situation'. Though it's still not necessarily true. Soldiers aren't trained to brawl in so called 'street fights', commanding officers really hate when they fight like that and the fact that many can owes more to their interests outside the military. Most squaddies can fight in pubs, clubs and the street but they haven't been trained to do that. Many martial artists cannot fight in the same situations because they don't train for that and often are at a loss what to do.
Your statement is such a sweeping one it doesn't really cover the point.

Stepping back or catching the ball is an effective way of dealing with a ball coming at you. It's not the football way but it is effective.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

Well, I guess I couldn't put my views properly. Apology for that.
I only wanted to say that a person practicing something on regular basis and dealing with it on continual basis would develop skills to handle it more properly than an average person who may not have faced that situation still.
And I am considering in general, there may some people who behave better than a fighter in a fight but most will be scared to act and freeze.

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[Tez3]

Well, I guess I couldn't put my views properly. Apology for that.
I only wanted to say that a person practicing something on regular basis and dealing with it on continual basis would develop skills to handle it more properly than an average person who may not have faced that situation still.
And I am considering in general, there may some people who behave better than a fighter in a fight but most will be scared to act and freeze.

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No worries. How many martial artists are fighters though? How many actually do practice fighting' not sparring on a regular basis? The Keysi lot who came to us thought they were 'fighters' but they weren't.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So I perused one of the wesites and read the description.

It is described as something that requires a lot of leg strength and upper body strength. If that is a true assessment then it automatically limits who might find it useful, and suggested that pure physical strength is the main driving force, rather than good technique and efficient body mechanics.

I also see that it says it is based on instinct responses (my paraphrasing there, I don't recall the exact wording). How do you teach instinct? If it's instinct, then it's already there. If it needs to be trained and taught, then it's not instinct.

In my opinion, instinctive responses are not often highly effective. I guess that is why we train in martial systems: methods that are ultimately more effective are often not instinctive, so they need to be taught and trained and the skill needs to be developed.

I don't know anything about this keysi thing, maybe it's good, maybe not. But I do find some odd things in the description.

In most cases, when a style is based on instinctive responses, the idea is to build new ends to existing movements. For instance, one of the early moves I teach students uses the relatively common flinch reaction of pulling the head in and throwing both hands between you and your attacker. I turn that into a block, then later into a counter-attack, and we re-visit it with different techniques down the line. That way, if they flinch (instead of giving their better, trained response), they still have tools to work with. It's an easy way to get a new student some useful tools before they program a new response to replace the flinch.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

In most cases, when a style is based on instinctive responses, the idea is to build new ends to existing movements. For instance, one of the early moves I teach students uses the relatively common flinch reaction of pulling the head in and throwing both hands between you and your attacker. I turn that into a block, then later into a counter-attack, and we re-visit it with different techniques down the line. That way, if they flinch (instead of giving their better, trained response), they still have tools to work with. It's an easy way to get a new student some useful tools before they program a new response to replace the flinch.

Now I think I can make an assumption on the fundamentals of KFM just for the sake of knowing but it is not clear that much.

 

[Flying Crane]

In most cases, when a style is based on instinctive responses, the idea is to build new ends to existing movements. For instance, one of the early moves I teach students uses the relatively common flinch reaction of pulling the head in and throwing both hands between you and your attacker. I turn that into a block, then later into a counter-attack, and we re-visit it with different techniques down the line. That way, if they flinch (instead of giving their better, trained response), they still have tools to work with. It's an easy way to get a new student some useful tools before they program a new response to replace the flinch.

Ok, so flinch response is really what they are talking about, and not instinct? From your own experience, that's fine. But I dunno if that is what they meant or not, in their own description.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok, so flinch response is really what they are talking about, and not instinct? From your own experience, that's fine. But I dunno if that is what they meant or not, in their own description.

I'm not sure, either. It's how I would interpret their words, but that's only my interpretation.

 

[oftheherd1]

Only a trained martial artist or soldier can behave effectively in dangerous situation. How can it be taught to a normal person without the knowledge of fighting styles. If so, then how is it different from other martial arts?

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I think I know what you mean. But I don't think it wise to restrict your statement to only a martial artist or a soldier. Anyone who is trainable can be trained to do things. The fewer things they are taught, the more time available for what is taught, and therefor the better at it they will be. Fight, Flight or Freeze, even that can be trained. And people do tend to do what they train to.

EDIT: Oh, I see Tez3 has already enlightened you.