Kata and Forms...?

[Milt G.]

Hello,

Would like to get an idea of the importance that is placed on kata and forms by the various practitioners, and systems, represented here.

On another forum the subject was brought up. Looking for more input.

Kata/Forms:

1) Necessary?
2) Very useful?
3) Somewhat useful?
4) Slightly useful?
5) Totally useless?

If so, or not, why???

Trying to find the "general" consensus.

Thanks, in advance for your assistance and input!

Milt G.

 

[searcher]

For the systems I train in and the ones I teach, I think they are essential. It is a way to convey material to the students and contains many techniques.

Now, I don't get to deep into the "hidden" techniques stuff. I don't think there are any techniques that are truly hidden in them. They are there, you just have to open your eyes and see them.

I find the EPAK forms to be the most essential, as they convey techniques that are in the system(short 3 to long 8) and the first 4 contain many basic techniques and are great for conditioning and solo practice. JMO.

 

[Milt G.]

For the systems I train in and the ones I teach, I think they are essential. It is a way to convey material to the students and contains many techniques.

Now, I don't get to deep into the "hidden" techniques stuff. I don't think there are any techniques that are truly hidden in them. They are there, you just have to open your eyes and see them.

I find the EPAK forms to be the most essential, as they convey techniques that are in the system(short 3 to long 8) and the first 4 contain many basic techniques and are great for conditioning and solo practice. JMO.

Hello,
I agree. The kata/forms are essential.

My choice is always #1.

They are good for conditioning, balance, coordination, timing, practicing the basics. The list goes on and on, in my opinion. I think that kata are the "heart" of any martial art, at least a defining portion. I think the kata are what makes a martial "science" an art.
I think that those arts that do not have kata are missing an important training element.
Not to diminish their effectiveness, of course. Any martial art can be effective under the right circumstances.

Thank you for your reply!
Milt G.

 

[thesandman]

I have to agree that they are fairly essential.

Many reasons have been stated above, but another is simply repetition of a particular move. Only a kata will really give you the opportunity to do a movement 10,000 times. At least, not without being bored to tears.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Here's the way I look at it:

There are several tools we use to hone our skills. Each has it's usefulness. The 3 most basic tools are forms, self defense techniques, and sparring.

I think that in order to be a complete martial artist, each must be given its proper attention.

 

[Haze]

Here's the way I look at it:

There are several tools we use to hone our skills. Each has it's usefulness. The 3 most basic tools are forms, self defense techniques, and sparring.

I think that in order to be a complete martial artist, each must be given its proper attention.

I agree,,,,,,,,,,,,the forms should contain your self defense techniques and when you spar you should be using the techniques from your forms. It all revolves around the form / kata.

 

[bowser666]

Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure this topic has a very long thread about it here http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51803


This particular discussion i think ha been rehashed dozens of times on this forum.
Try search thread next time methinks

 

[Milt G.]

Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure this topic has a very long thread about it here http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51803


This particular discussion i think ha been rehashed dozens of times on this forum.
Try search thread next time methinks

Hello,

Thanks for the information. I thought the subject may have been visited in the past.

But as there are over a million posts, and I am new to this forum, I have not had time to "catch up" on everything as of yet.

Milt G.

 

[Blindside]

It depends on your definition of form/kata. Is a boxer practicing a jab/cross/hook doing a "kata," or a kali practitioner running through "cinco teros?" If the answer is "yes" then sure, I agree "kata" is vital since is merely standing in for "practicing basics in a predermined pattern, no matter how short that pattern may be." Otherwise, no I don't consider it vital.

 

[Milt G.]

It depends on your definition of form/kata. Is a boxer practicing a jab/cross/hook doing a "kata," or a kali practitioner running through "cinco teros?" If the answer is "yes" then sure, I agree "kata" is vital since is merely standing in for "practicing basics in a predermined pattern, no matter how short that pattern may be." Otherwise, no I don't consider it vital.

Hi, Lamont...
Hope all continues to be well.

Actually, I meant the general term for kata... Although, I guess you could consider the shorter base moves, kata, as long as there was more then one movement involved.

I would, perhaps, consider a six count stick drill a type of kata. I guess the exact meaning of the term would be helpful. I was meaning a traditional system's kata, as long as the system did normaly practice them. You brought up a good point, though...

Thanks for your reply.
Maybe see you in Wyoming in early September?
Milt G.

 

[tallgeese]

I'm in the minority here, I'll go with "totally useless" for the adult, self defense oriented practitioner.


Any movements in kata can be more efficiently drilled two man. Strikes are better trained on mitts or via bag work due to the more "live nature".

For youths, I can see the "slightly useful" category. But I think it'd be optional.

 

[Tez3]

Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure this topic has a very long thread about it here http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51803


This particular discussion i think ha been rehashed dozens of times on this forum.
Try search thread next time methinks

And please don't double post? We also have the same OP in the Japanese section. Just one discussion is enough, doubling up splits the discussion.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78987

 

[Tez3]

Or triple post
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78984

 

[Blindside]

Strikes are better trained on mitts or via bag work due to the more "live nature".

Yup, shadowboxing is useless....

 

[mwd0818]

Yup, shadowboxing is useless....

I wouldn't go that far . . .

 

[Blindside]

I wouldn't go that far . . .

Me either.

 

[just2kicku]

I replied to this in the kenpo section

 

[still learning]

Hello, It would be nice to see more studies and research done to find the effectiveness of Kata's ( defining this is also important) vs practice training, various other training methods...

It would be nice to get accurate scientific data...

Anyone found one?

Aloha,

 

[Flying Crane]

Hello, It would be nice to see more studies and research done to find the effectiveness of Kata's ( defining this is also important) vs practice training, various other training methods...

It would be nice to get accurate scientific data...

Anyone found one?

Aloha,

I personally doubt that it would be possible. Far far too many variables, to do adequate control in order to get meaningful data.

and even if we could get meaningful data, what good would it be? Some people just hate it and wouldn't do it even if the date suggested it was absolutely the best method. Others love kata, and would do it even if the data suggested that it was completely worthless.

 

[Milt G.]

And please don't double post? We also have the same OP in the Japanese section. Just one discussion is enough, doubling up splits the discussion.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78987

Hello,
Thanks for the "heads up".
I have heard.

Milt G.