Just what is unamerican?

[rmcrobertson]

American democracy, freedom of speech, the complexity of modern society, our codes of law, our attempts to take care of each other, are all extraordinary achievements. I wish some folks had a little more faith in them.

 

[OUMoose]

OU Mouse,

Ok, if I am allowed to think and do want I want without stepping on your toes and in your pursuit of your thoughts, then what is wrong if I have a motorcycle, Convertible, and Truck? A house for my cat and myself? And a savings account for the future incase somethign breaks?

Personally, I think you should live your own life. This is good. Yet, if I disagree with you, does this then make me wrong and un-American?

I would say no. Yet, that is my opinion. :asian:

Good post in my mind, just curious is all

It's good that you live your own life, with the trappings you desire. That's really all anyone can ask. When someone comes to your door in a black suit telling you that you can't have your things though, or one of your ideas is anti-social or "subversive" (I love that term for some reason, always makes me chuckle), and tries to take it away, THEN is when you need to make a stand. Perhaps I was unclear in my last post, and I apologize.

 

[Rich Parsons]

It's good that you live your own life, with the trappings you desire. That's really all anyone can ask. When someone comes to your door in a black suit telling you that you can't have your things though, or one of your ideas is anti-social or "subversive" (I love that term for some reason, always makes me chuckle), and tries to take it away, THEN is when you need to make a stand. Perhaps I was unclear in my last post, and I apologize.

Sir,

No Apology need or requried.

Thank You for the follow up.

I also agree that you should stand up for your rights, and be ready to assume your responsibilities


:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

I could perhaps point out that rights are always balanced by obligation to others, and the need for social stability. One hasn't the right to scream at everybody; one hasn't the right to fire guns in the air at randowm; and one may not have the right to pointlessly chew up as much of nature asone pleases, given that other people live on the planet too.

Part of the problem is the diminished idea of freedom and rights, if they simply boil down to the right to have, "a motorcycle, a car, and a truck."

 

[Makalakumu]

Why is universal health care unamerican?

According to the Tome of Republican Jingoism "All Americans MUST be able to take care of themselves regardless of the circumstances."

 

[Makalakumu]

Kind of a tangent but...the "underpriveleged" American is an interesting point. While there are many "poor" in our nation, the definition is a matter of comparison. I deal with many who by our standards are "poor" but still have cable TV, Cars (beaters granted), and coke in the fridge. While touring the globe in uniform, I got to see what Poor really is. Many Americans dont appreciate how well we really have it here.

Too true. Get outside the borders of the country and see the standards the multinationals force on the third world. Its horrendous and immoral.

 

[heretic888]

No, not just something. See where you go wrong is when you start off with "In other words." Well, other words aint my words. Let me help. It was an example of a socialist program at the federal level.

By your logic, both the military and all forms of federal administration (including the FBI and 'Homeland Security') are "socialist" organizations.

Good to know the courageous men and women dying in Iraq are just a bunch'a no-good commies in your eyes.

Well Bob, Heretic has won a free lesson that the police, libraries, fire stations are ALLL at the local level.

So what?? If you live in that town or state, you are still taxed for services that may or may not directly benefit you --- which is essentially the same argument you used above for universal healthcare.

But yes, even towns vote in some services that they feel would benefit the people. But at least if you don't like it, you can go to the town next over. On a national level, I really DON'T like the idea of moving to Canada or Mexico.

I fail to see the difference. The same logic is still used: "If yah don't like it, then get the hell out!!" Whether its on the local or the national level, its still variatons on jingoism.

What if I personally like living in my town or state?? By your "logic", if I oppose the existence of police, then I am forced to just "deal with it". I fail to see how this argument is any different with universal healthcare.

The thing about Police and Fire work, well they go to where they are needed. As for the military, well, we don't really use the militias anymore unles we have an anti-gun ad to run, so I guess it'll have ta do.

Ah, I see. Local socialism = good. Federal socialism = bad.

But, a cogent argument as to why this disctinction should be made (of local forms being "good" and federal forms being "bad")?? Nope. Still not there.

I hope I cleared up my "logic" for you.

Pretty much, but "logic" isn't the word I would use...

*chuckles* Laterz.

 

[MisterMike]

Good to know the courageous men and women dying in Iraq are just a bunch'a no-good commies in your eyes.

Nope, at this point, only you.

 

[heretic888]

Nope, at this point, only you.

Ah, delightful. So, now I'm a communist.

Right-wing jingoism at its finest. Next I'm sure I'll be told how I "hate" America...

*laughs* :boing2:

 

[MisterMike]

Next I'm sure I'll be told how I "hate" America

Possibly. I was called convoluted because I of how I feel about socialism.

That's even better than everyday left-wing fruitiness. Although it's all I've come to expect from them.

Your seemingly intolerant stance has rendered you helpless in keeping yourself from a personal attack on me in your very first reply. It's kind of sad really...

But I'm always open to peaceful debate.

LAterZ

 

[heretic888]

I was called convoluted because I of how I feel about socialism.

Actually, no you weren't. Not unless "you" and "your logic" are somehow identical beings. Personally, I feel quite distinct from the thoughts that float by in my mind. But maybe thats just me.

Your seemingly intolerant stance has rendered you helpless in keeping yourself from a personal attack on me in your very first reply.

Intolerant?? Yeah, okay, Mr. Universal Healthcare-is-AntiAmerican.

The only thing I am intolerant of is irrational polemic and contrived hypocrisy, which is what your arguments against universal healthcare basically consisted of.

Tah, tah.

 

[Nightingale]

I would say that criticizing someone for speaking their mind, even if they disagree withyou is unamerican. Freedom of speech was one of the founding principles of this country, so naturally, there are going to be different points of view and not everyone is going to agree. There's nothing wrong with arguing your point, but don't belittle someone else for having a different idea than you do.

 

[rmcrobertson]

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/barzinn.htm.

Hey's here's a link for ya, MM. It's from one of those "unAmericans," you're so frightened of.

Yes, you'll have to type the address. I'm also a Luddite.

 

[MisterMike]

Hey hey hey now...I didn't call any person un- or anti-American. Just pointing out policies I don't like...but I'll check out the interview just the same

 

[RCastillo]

That turd from California, that converted to Islam so he could hit his own people. Shoot him, and let him rot where he lays. :deadhorse

 

[Touch Of Death]

That turd from California, that converted to Islam so he could hit his own people. Shoot him, and let him rot where he lays. :deadhorse

I understand he was already unstable. Perhaps it was unamerican to have left him to his own devices all these years HMMMMM?
Sean

 

[michaeledward]

It is UnAmerican to participate on this message board heavily and not have the words 'Supporting Member' on the right side of your posts! Come On ... send the guy a couple of bucks a month. That would TRULY be American of you.

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Everybody smile .... just had to put in a plug for the nice folks at MartialTalk.
Mike

 

[Rich Parsons]

I could perhaps point out that rights are always balanced by obligation to others, and the need for social stability. One hasn't the right to scream at everybody; one hasn't the right to fire guns in the air at randowm; and one may not have the right to pointlessly chew up as much of nature asone pleases, given that other people live on the planet too.

Part of the problem is the diminished idea of freedom and rights, if they simply boil down to the right to have, "a motorcycle, a car, and a truck."

Robert,

Nice Post. I agree with most of what you said. The part I do not agree with is because I do not understand. Are you implying that I am wasting resources with my vehicles? Are you saying that I have been yelling at you? Or were you just using my line as a comment?

Personally, I agree that people have responsibilities to themselves and others, as well as society.

As to my vehicles, I like to ride my motorcycle, it does get 37-45 MPG. I use this to get to work on nice days, and did get rained on, on last Thursday. The Car, gets 30 MPG on the highway and is what I use when I do not use the Bike. I do use the Truck, when the weather is bad.

Thank You


:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

It is UnAmerican to participate on this message board heavily and not have the words 'Supporting Member' on the right side of your posts! Come On ... send the guy a couple of bucks a month. That would TRULY be American of you.

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Everybody smile .... just had to put in a plug for the nice folks at MartialTalk.
Mike

Actually, you could be a Martial Talk Fan for no Cost at all. Or you could become a supporting member.

:asian:

 

[psi_radar]

Thank you for an interesting topic.

There is no un-american who is a citizen and does not sacrifice the safety of others. All of our voices count. If we disagree with our president, it is our right and our duty to voice that opinion. If the government's actions lead to tyranny, we have the right to bear arms against it.

Beyond that, we have had 200+ years to build upon the absolutely amazing document, the constitution, and its sister, the declaration of independence. Rereading these documents, I am amazed at the wisdom and foresight of their creators.

However, 200 years have passed, and those documents were created to secure the needs and freedoms of the people in this land. Today's world is a much smaller place, and the executive branch of government has more power than ever before.

I won't deign to put words in the mouth of founding fathers, but when they were here, they put forth an effort to start a grand experiment, in which all peoples of the land had equal status and opportunity. Given the power we wield today, what would they do? Spreading ideology by force, a practice they detested and constructed two fanastic documents to defend against, or by setting an example so irresistable that all people naturally would want to pursue as humans?