heretic888
Senior Master
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2002
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Nicely put, Psi. I agree 100%. :asian:
Just what is unamerican?
- Thread starter Touch Of Death
- Start date
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
What is "un-American"?
It is the right of every American to argue or condemn another's speech or writings, religious perspective, or political viewpoint. It is un-American to actively seek the suppression of those views expressed. Though we view this suppression as "un-American" our history shows that we have actively denied people this right in the past. (Reference the Alien and Sedition act of 1798, which nullified the 1st Amendment.)
George Herbert Walker Bush (41st President) stated he didn't believe atheists were legitimate citizens of the United States. That would amount to about fifteen percent of the population. I find this somewhat disturbingly un-American and hypocritical given that he said during his first inaugural speech, "A President is neither prince nor pope, and I don't seek a window on men's souls. In fact, I yearn for a greater tolerance, an easy- goingness about each other's attitudes and way of life."
It is un-American to deny people their right to vote and to participate in the electoral process. Even today, however, felons are routinely disenfranchised. A huge number of blacks, hispanics, and poor whites who have had felony convictions are thereby denied their right to vote. Given that blacks are sentenced to prison twice as often as whites (who are given probation in greater numbers) this really makes very little sense to me.
See: http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/feature-commentary/20030217/202/285
It is un-American to deny a person a job or an education based upon their race, creed, gender, or gender preference. An Islamic militant, however, sworn to the destruction of Christianity and the West, might rightfully be denied a security clearance and a job at CIA headquarters. This does in fact make perfect sense to me. On the other hand, if he is a Muslim or an Afghani who has no ties to terrorism then we need to actively recruit him/her as a translator for the State Department.
It is un-American to suspend the Constitutional rights of legal citizens, as we did to Japanese Americans in WWII.
It is un-American to violate the privacy of a citizen. Sadly, we determine the right to privacy via "penumbras and emanations" from the Constitution, and no Constitutional amendment exists that clearly protects us from the prying eyes of the government.
I find it hypocritically un-American to say that we are the "good guys" and hold ourselves up as a beacon of hope for the world...and then turn about and ruthlessly abuse that reputation through scandalous dealings with scalawags and thugs.
I'm thinking here of Mohammed Reza Shah Pahlavi (whose secret police force SAVAK had unlimited powers of arrest and detention, something we're supposed to frown upon), Saddam Hussein (we sold him WMD's), the House of Saud (who fund militant Wahhabi Islamic schools), and the Nicaraguan Contras (who were notorious for murder and drug traffickers).
For the Contra drug situation, see:
http://www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/covert/contracoke.html
I don't think it un-American to aknowledge an imperfect past history of our nation, and to recognize that for all its achievements, liberty and justice for all has not always been the standard. I find it naive and jingoistic to believe otherwise.
And, lastly, I find it un-American to call someone "un-American" simply because he doesn't agree with the sitting President. And that lends a nice circularity to this post by tying it in with the beginning.
Regards,
Steve
It is the right of every American to argue or condemn another's speech or writings, religious perspective, or political viewpoint. It is un-American to actively seek the suppression of those views expressed. Though we view this suppression as "un-American" our history shows that we have actively denied people this right in the past. (Reference the Alien and Sedition act of 1798, which nullified the 1st Amendment.)
George Herbert Walker Bush (41st President) stated he didn't believe atheists were legitimate citizens of the United States. That would amount to about fifteen percent of the population. I find this somewhat disturbingly un-American and hypocritical given that he said during his first inaugural speech, "A President is neither prince nor pope, and I don't seek a window on men's souls. In fact, I yearn for a greater tolerance, an easy- goingness about each other's attitudes and way of life."
It is un-American to deny people their right to vote and to participate in the electoral process. Even today, however, felons are routinely disenfranchised. A huge number of blacks, hispanics, and poor whites who have had felony convictions are thereby denied their right to vote. Given that blacks are sentenced to prison twice as often as whites (who are given probation in greater numbers) this really makes very little sense to me.
See: http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/feature-commentary/20030217/202/285
It is un-American to deny a person a job or an education based upon their race, creed, gender, or gender preference. An Islamic militant, however, sworn to the destruction of Christianity and the West, might rightfully be denied a security clearance and a job at CIA headquarters. This does in fact make perfect sense to me. On the other hand, if he is a Muslim or an Afghani who has no ties to terrorism then we need to actively recruit him/her as a translator for the State Department.
It is un-American to suspend the Constitutional rights of legal citizens, as we did to Japanese Americans in WWII.
It is un-American to violate the privacy of a citizen. Sadly, we determine the right to privacy via "penumbras and emanations" from the Constitution, and no Constitutional amendment exists that clearly protects us from the prying eyes of the government.
I find it hypocritically un-American to say that we are the "good guys" and hold ourselves up as a beacon of hope for the world...and then turn about and ruthlessly abuse that reputation through scandalous dealings with scalawags and thugs.
I'm thinking here of Mohammed Reza Shah Pahlavi (whose secret police force SAVAK had unlimited powers of arrest and detention, something we're supposed to frown upon), Saddam Hussein (we sold him WMD's), the House of Saud (who fund militant Wahhabi Islamic schools), and the Nicaraguan Contras (who were notorious for murder and drug traffickers).
For the Contra drug situation, see:
http://www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/covert/contracoke.html
I don't think it un-American to aknowledge an imperfect past history of our nation, and to recognize that for all its achievements, liberty and justice for all has not always been the standard. I find it naive and jingoistic to believe otherwise.
And, lastly, I find it un-American to call someone "un-American" simply because he doesn't agree with the sitting President. And that lends a nice circularity to this post by tying it in with the beginning.
Regards,
Steve
psi_radar
Black Belt
hardheadjarhead said:
Great post Steve. I'm curious when GWB said the above and what sources can be quoted. Some staunch republican atheist friends of mine might be interested. Thanks,
Pete
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Pete,
There are athiest Republicans? Well, there are Gay Republicans...I guess its possible. It sounds so...oxymoronic.
Here are sources for the GHWB quote. Remember this was Bush 41, not Bush 43. Bush the elder said that atheists weren't patriots and shouldn't be considered citizens. Type a Google search "George Bush Atheism" and you'll get the following links plus some others.
http://www.cyberdespot.com/home.html?jesustricks/bush.html&frames/left.html&frames/top.html
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html
Well...if atheists aren't citizens and patriots, I wonder if he'd consider Hindus and Moslems to be???
Regards,
Steve
There are athiest Republicans? Well, there are Gay Republicans...I guess its possible. It sounds so...oxymoronic.
Here are sources for the GHWB quote. Remember this was Bush 41, not Bush 43. Bush the elder said that atheists weren't patriots and shouldn't be considered citizens. Type a Google search "George Bush Atheism" and you'll get the following links plus some others.
http://www.cyberdespot.com/home.html?jesustricks/bush.html&frames/left.html&frames/top.html
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/arguments.html
Well...if atheists aren't citizens and patriots, I wonder if he'd consider Hindus and Moslems to be???
Regards,
Steve
psi_radar
Black Belt
hardheadjarhead said:
ha ha, few and far between, the ones I know are extremely wealthy scientists. Thanks for pointing out it was Bush 41, not 43, but the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?
Another good question.
Pete
