jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
In the light of these "types" of videos becoming more and more popular it seems I was wondering, how do you keep your training real?
Last edited by a moderator:
Just...how....why?
- Thread starter jasonbrinn
- Start date
rframe
Green Belt
Nonsense like that has absolutely zero effect on my training, so I dont see it as a problem that needs to be addressed.
You keep it real by choosing the right dojo with the right sensei for the right reason.
What this video he trying to portray is a principle (grounding/rooting) that takes years to understand and has no immediate value to perspective students.
What this video he trying to portray is a principle (grounding/rooting) that takes years to understand and has no immediate value to perspective students.
pgsmith
Master of Arts
MikeBielat
Orange Belt
Well that's a minute of my life I'll never get back.
mook jong man
Senior Master
That is one of the best Parkour videos I have ever seen , it takes real skill and athleticism to run up walls like that.
Danny T
Senior Master
Train with the attitude you are preparing for an opponent who is going to punch your face & body or kick your body & legs in a manner of hurting you badly. Then do it for real against a partner who will hit and kick you. Do it against weapons and against someone trying to take you down or throw you. Tonight we had a person from another school visit (we have an open invitation to all the schools for them to participate in our sparring night) stating he had been wanting to spar with us for a long time. Only rules we have is we walk away friends at the end of the evening and you must agree with each other as to the level of force during each 3 minute session. Full contact punching and kicking. So our new visiting friend talks of lots sparring time and wants to go full out. To start off I pair him with one our 1 year students. He immediately states,"no disrespect sir, I have almost 10 years of training and a lot of tournament competition. I really feel I should be sparring with someone more on my level." Sooo, I pair him with a 2 year student who is preparing for his 1st fight next month and though not completely satisfied he agreed. "Full Contact" he requested, "Full Contact" was agreed as I told my student no more than 60%. In less than 30 seconds he was complaining that he normally doesn't train hitting in the face or kicking below the waist. In less than a minute he had turn his back balling up to protect himself and calling time out. We called off his session and when speaking with him afterward he truefully stated in all his years of sparring hitting to the face was not allowed and he had never ever been hit as hard as he was just hit. All his trophies and sparring experience couldn't help when he actually got hit.
All of this is not to say we are better only to show if you want keep your training real, you must train like it is real. You will get hit, kicked, taken down, or even thrown so you must train with some who is actually hitting, kicking,... etc. for real.
The thing about the demos in the video is that it shows a principle of rooting which is very important (other parts are crap), what is doesn't reflect is in reality it is but a moment in time. Not for several seconds like the video.
All of this is not to say we are better only to show if you want keep your training real, you must train like it is real. You will get hit, kicked, taken down, or even thrown so you must train with some who is actually hitting, kicking,... etc. for real.
The thing about the demos in the video is that it shows a principle of rooting which is very important (other parts are crap), what is doesn't reflect is in reality it is but a moment in time. Not for several seconds like the video.
OP
OP
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
So, yeah, I was just posting the video for laughs. The video does however highlight an issue rampant in the martial arts and that is keeping it real I feel. I was curious to read about how different people make sure they don't get sucked into their arts so much that they loose a healthy sense of skepticism even towards the very art and teacher they train with.
Obviously there is sparring, however, there are certain psychological factors that can create a false "real sparring" environment when you train with people you know sometimes. Also, there is a heavy burden to uphold the tenets talk by XYZ instructor due to loyalty, respect, etc.
Jason Brinn
Obviously there is sparring, however, there are certain psychological factors that can create a false "real sparring" environment when you train with people you know sometimes. Also, there is a heavy burden to uphold the tenets talk by XYZ instructor due to loyalty, respect, etc.
Jason Brinn
OP
OP
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
Unfortunately this is kind of understanding and knowledge is missing from people who are new or who haven't had a wide range of experience as this video clearly illustrates. Some people worship George Dillman and believe in no-touch knockouts so where is the standard for "right dojo, right sensei?"
This video portrays nothing of martial value - NOTHING! It represents no principles other than how gullible people can be or the depths of brainwashing and social hypnotism.
Jason Brinn
pgsmith
Master of Arts
So what's the problem with that? Are you complaining because those people aren't in your dojo? How does anything they do or believe affect you at all? Why do you feel that everyone has to have what you consider to be "real" martial arts?
My opinion is that you need to stop and determine why this is an issue for you. Why should it bother you what other people are doing?
Uncle
Blue Belt
Because one fool makes fools of us all. The angry flag burning, building bombing Muslims aren't representative of the general population but that's what people see because it is the most "out there." The chi tricking, no touch knockout folks equally give real martial artists a bad name which is why you find so many twelve year olds on forums asking how martial arts can help them attain magic powers.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
While it doesn't get my feathers completely ruffled, videos like this and dilman's no touch knock out nonsense do make the martial arts community as a whole look foolish. Plus when people get arrogant and buy into their own hype like that it is irresponsible to be teaching. Some naive student will take such things seriously and could be really hurt if the tried to rely on such a thing.
I've often wondered about that, I saw a Dillman instructor do a 'no touch' KO once most amusing but it seems the students do common or garden SD techniques, quite good ones, known to most of us. I'm assuming that students don't get taught this no touch stuff until they are well in with the 'boss' so I'm guessing the instructors do actually know the 'no touch' doesn't work, they just like to fool the gullible.
pgsmith
Master of Arts
Maybe you, but since they have no bearing on what I do, they don't have any influence on me whatsoever. I make it a point to base my thoughts and actions on what I feel should be done, not on what others think of me. Therefore, I don't really care what others think of my training, as it has no relevance to what I do. Since there are quite a few of these type of groups out there, they obviously fill a need. That is a need that wouldn't be filled with a traditional dojo or martial art, so I have no problem letting them fill those people's needs.
You only look foolish if you are concerned with what others think of you. Do you dress in the latest fashion so no one thinks you're foolish? Did you buy your last vehicle, or decorate your house based on what others think of you, or based on what you liked and thought appropriate? It is very easy to buy a cheap pair of shoes that can cause serious foot problems, but that is covered by the phrase 'caveat emptor'. However, so many people think that martial arts should not be treated the same as anything else that is available in our consumer driven world.
As for being hurt, unless a person works as a LEO or in personal security, their odds of ever having to use anything they've learned in the dojo is incredibly small. I feel that it is much more likely that they'll have permanent foot problems from a cheap pair of shoes than that they'll get hurt from poor martial arts training.
Some people just don't like the idea that something that they consider foolish might be applied to them by unknowing people. However, we're all thought foolish at some point (some of us more than others
), and it really does no permanent damage. I much prefer to avoid all of the piling on that occurs when people discuss the corner McDojo, and just get on with what actually does affect me.Just my thought on it.
But Dillman isn't the only one who performs no-touch knock outs; Leon Jay has done them, Jack Hogan another, whom I saw both do them, and promote them. Just FYI I don't do them, never have never will, never tried, I'm not even a PP guy, and really see no use in them (the no touch knock outs). However Leon Jay is a great martial artist like his father and I wouldn't turn down training in his dojo because he can do it and I can't (or won't and really don't care about the no touch knock outs).
I agree except I thought the video was a joke and the students are all in on it. I mean look at some of them as they turn around as they are repelled by the masters Chi, they are actually laughing and then they starting running to jump up to the wall. I took it as something I would see on "Enter the Dojo" , hey that could actually be used for an episode.
As for the way it might make me want to adjust my training, I already get all my real life training from Ameri Do Te, so I don't need any CMA Bull S....
OP
OP
jasonbrinn
Purple Belt
This is exactly my point. I am going to assume that you either think the no-touch stuff is bunk or at least not valid enough to train, yet someone you respect and would train with advocates them. You are trained enough to know bunk when you see it. Without good control systems people who don't have a good bunk detector might get swept up with someone like Leon Jay and think that everything he teaches is bible even the bunk. If Leon Jay had proper control systems he would not be advocating no-touch, unless he is just doing it for money, fame, etc.
Sadly, they were not faking (at least I am strongly under the belief that they were not). This is a real school in Japan. I have seen many demos with this crap and other videos that were definitely meant to represent such. For some strange reason this "teachers" either won't demo on you (to protect you from being hurt) or can't make it work that time (for any number of BS reasons).
Martial Arts in my opinion is more importantly about (even before self defense applications) honesty/integrity. People who do these things are either outright deceiving people or have deceived themselves. If I am wrong I want to be proven wrong about this cause in 30 years, traveling all around, I have yet to see anyone do these kinds of things.
However, my OP wasn't really about these people as much as it was about being careful not to let yourself get deceived over the long haul of training and the ways people ensure that perspective.
Jason Brinn
