Journey to a new style...

[_Simon_164 195]

Hey guys.. Just getting my thoughts out there... been really struggling with my current dojo... Even looking at the post from almost exactly a year ago it's pretty much the same as now. Just not really getting much feedback, and actually had an honest conversation with my instructor regarding this, and he says genuinely when he sees my kata there is nothing at all he can think of that comes to mind to improve. I just keep thinking, surely there's more to it, I've certainly gotten heaps of feedback and ways to improve when training at the camps and with others...

So I've been invited to do my 2nd dan grading in mid October. It's been 2 years since my last grading, and as a part of this grading I'm required to know 10 specific nage waza (throwing/takedown techniques/drills). We've barely done any of them over the past 2 years. Like I've said before I'd felt like my stuff has been really neglected, and after being invited to grade I mentioned that I'm not at all confident with the takedown techniques.

So to his credit, my instructor is only now spending quite alot more time with me on them, but it still feels incredibly rushed, and I am still no where near feeling confident with them. I don't understand why we didn't work on them for 2 whole years and now they're being crammed in to tick off a box.

I'm just at a point where I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my club... and I have no idea whether to go for my 2nd dan. It feels like if I do, then after that I'll learn a few more katas and bunkai and that's it... the depth I'm looking for just isn't really there. And again I still worry about the standard of others' grading... I know I do set a really high standard but there's basic stuff being overlooked. So I wonder what my grading would even mean if I was to go for it... like what I'm being judged on.

Actually one of the previous instructors who left our club a few years ago has been popping in on some classes and it's been really nice to see him. I actually had a really good chat with him after class the other day about all of my struggles, and he very much could empathise and sort of felt a similar way about the club. He was actually very helpful in that he laid out the options I could take:

1) As I'm not getting the feedback, to ask my instructor to spend 20-30 minutes or so with me after classes on more in depth stuff, but I just don't think I'd get that, I've already sort of asked that.

2) Ask to have my 2nd dan grading postponed a few months so I feel more ready.

3) Start thinking about possibly looking elsewhere that might speak to me.


He thinks if I chose option 3 that maybe I shouldn't leave as 1st dan, but still go for my 2nd dan as I truly do deserve it.

He also said that I'm leagues above the other students and asked how I feel about not having really any higher grades to learn from, which I feel is a big thing, and something I've thought about alot... I really want to surround myself with those better than myself and just want to learn again. It's nice being the one of highest grades in ways, but not in others.

I really honestly keep flipping back and forward regarding grading. Some days I'll think I'll go for it, then others I just have no motivation to. Feels like I'm on such a precipice, almost feeling like leaving karate altogether for a bit. I have no idea what to do really. Well, there are ideas but no clear cut answer as of yet.

It's so emotional, as I really love the people and community at the dojo, and my instructor is incredibly kind and has gone out of his way in many ways, more than he needed to to help me over the years. But I don't know if it's like I'm outgrowing the dojo.. that actually feels really accurate now that I've said it out loud...


That being said, I am really loving cross-training back in Kyokushin a bit, I'm learning alot there that I've missed. I'd still like to keep that going, but still be within and learning Goju.

So that's that... just my current space I'm really really struggling with . Thanks for listening all

 

[Gyakuto164 173]

What grade is your current teacher? Could it be he just doesn’t have the experience and insight to spot your issues and then help you deal with them?

If you instructor is now doing what you require for your nidan, then a postponement would be best, get your nidan and go through the trauma of bruised egos, jealousy and resentment that results from looking for another teacher!

I started making a log of the kata we were being coached in as I felt my then teacher was avoiding the more challenging ones. After a few months, the data showed I wasn’t imagining it: the awkward kata, the ones with which we all struggled, were poorly represented in my training log. Ironically these three kata are nearly always represented in shinsa (gradings). My strategy was to practise them more on my own, request them asked for requests or run through them when we had free practise. You’d’ve thought my instructor would’ve taken the hint, but he probably chose to ignore it.

Best of luck coming to a decision but my opinion is that if you have a gut feeling things aren’t right, then, ultimately, go elsewhere.

 

[_Simon_164 195]

What grade is your current teacher? Could it be he just doesn’t have the experience and insight to spot your issues and then help you deal with them?

If you instructor is now doing what you require for your nidan, then a postponement would be best, get your nidan and go through the trauma of bruised egos, jealousy and resentment that results from looking for another teacher!

I started making a log of the kata we were being coached in as I felt my then teacher was avoiding the more challenging ones. After a few months, the data showed I wasn’t imagining it: the awkward kata, the ones with which we all struggled, were poorly represented in my training log. Ironically these three kata are nearly always represented in shinsa (gradings). My strategy was to practise them more on my own, request them asked for requests or run through them when we had free practise. You’d’ve thought my instructor would’ve taken the hint, but he probably chose to ignore it.

Best of luck coming to a decision but my opinion is that if you have a gut feeling things aren’t right, then, ultimately, go elsewhere.

Thanks mate, appreciate the input very much. He's 5th Dan, am not really sure but I just kept being designated to assistant teach the lower grades, and I just always felt my learning and development wasn't really worked on. I know of course teaching is an important aspect and I have learned alot through teaching others, and I do value it and feel it's important to teach others, but qualitatively it's just different.

I'm also very well aware that I am still relatively young in my journey in a way, a little 1st dan, even though I've been training almost 20 years total and have seen quite a variety in quality within different clubs. So I'm also trying to keep myself in check and be aware of what limitations I have in my understanding and development. But it just feels like I've hit a ceiling of my growth in this club... I always pay attention to what's being taught, how it's being taught and the quality that's developed or expected. And it feels like I won't get the depth of training post-Nidan apart from some new katas and bunkai. And I don't mean I just want new trinkets and novelties to learn, but very much more depth of what we're currently doing.

When training with some other groups I was always getting such amazing feedback and guidance... even on some basic things. The annual camps and also the specialised yudansha training I went to was incredible (I attended 2 before they realised our club wasn't affiliated with theirs, so can't attend any more which I totally understand).

I don't know whether it's worth attempting my nidan.. I do know how incredibly hard I worked for my Shodan grading and I feel like I truly earned it, even though I still question what it really fully means, I do know the quality I developed and displayed. Even though not 100% confident, I know I'd still do incredibly well in a Nidan grading with everything else. But don't want to get my Nidan as any sort of leverage to another style. If anything I'd welcome being knocked back much lower. Very uncertain..

So

 

[isshinryuronin54 54]

I don't know whether it's worth attempting my nidan.

Go for it. It's a win-win for you regardless of the situation. With all the hard work you've put into your MA over the years you have a strong base and likely deserve a nidan, being on an overall equal footing with others of that rank. If you don't pass, you've had the testing experience and a hard-to-refuse reason for your teacher to go over material with you.

Just not really getting much feedback, and actually had an honest conversation with my instructor regarding this, and he says genuinely when he sees my kata there is nothing at all he can think of that comes to mind to improve. I just keep thinking, surely there's more to it,

3 possibilities here: 1. He doesn't fully understand the kata and foundations of your style. 2. He does but doesn't care and/or has low standards. 3. He's happy with your ability at this point and after nidan will start drilling down to the advanced stuff.

as a part of this grading I'm required to know 10 specific nage waza (throwing/takedown techniques/drills). We've barely done any of them over the past 2 years. Like I've said before I'd felt like my stuff has been really neglected, and after being invited to grade I mentioned that I'm not at all confident with the takedown techniques.

I was in this exact position for my shodan test. My sensei expected us to perfect these on our own. My fellow candidate and I trained together for a month prior to the test on this and on kata. Having a workout buddy was a big help.

I think most takedowns will incorporate at least 3 to 5 of the following elements:

1. Evading/blocking the attack
2. Foot placement (usually against the opponent's leg which can buckle his balance and provide a fulcrum)
3. And or hip placement as in #2
4. The pivot providing the force (linear or circular)
5. Controlling the opponent to the ground in position for a finishing strike.
Note: The timing of steps #2/#3 with #4 is what makes it work. They are synergistic.

Don't get discouraged.

 

[Gyakuto164 173]

Thanks mate, appreciate the input very much. He's 5th Dan, am not really sure but I just kept being designated to assistant teach the lower grades, and I just always felt my learning and development wasn't really worked on. I know of course teaching is an important aspect and I have learned alot through teaching others, and I do value it and feel it's important to teach others, but qualitatively it's just different.

Yes teaching can be a learning experience but it prevents you practising, getting the reps into your learning process, which is why I’ve avoided it except in very special circumstances.

I'm also very well aware that I am still relatively young in my journey in a way, a little 1st dan, even though I've been training almost 20 years total and have seen quite a variety in quality within different clubs. So I'm also trying to keep myself in check and be aware of what limitations I have in my understanding and development. But it just feels like I've hit a ceiling of my growth in this club...

I’m sure you understand that the ‘learning curve’ gets closer to the asymptote with time/grade. All a better teacher does is move the asymptote further away. This seems to happen sooner than in the ‘old days’, I think due to easy access to excellent knowledge online and far more books. There was only one book to aid learning when I was doing Karate and that was 20 years out of date!

Your curve is flattening due to your current teacher. I think the solution is fairly obvious!

I always pay attention to what's being taught, how it's being taught and the quality that's developed or expected. And it feels like I won't get the depth of training post-Nidan apart from some new katas and bunkai. And I don't mean I just want new trinkets and novelties to learn, but very much more depth of what we're currently doing.

What do you specifically understand by the term, ‘depth of practise’? Can you quantify it in terms of your expectations?

When training with some other groups I was always getting such amazing feedback and guidance... even on some basic things. The annual camps and also the specialised yudansha training I went to was incredible (I attended 2 before they realised our club wasn't affiliated with theirs, so can't attend any more which I totally understand).

I think you may be seeking validation for what you know is the best thing for you to do. I think your heart is probably right and you need to move on.

I don't know whether it's worth attempting my nidan..

If you were awarded nidan, do you think it would be of worth? Will you have earned it as you earned shodan? If you think not, I’d defer taking it; you don’t want a sham grade

I do know how incredibly hard I worked for my Shodan grading and I feel like I truly earned it,

Yes I remember!

even though I still question what it really fully means,

It has no real objective meaning because the level is so variable between associations and even dojo. The meaning is entire subjective but doesn’t necessarily require time and effort quantifying. Spend that time analysing blocking angle or shifting your centre of mass etc…

I do know the quality I developed and displayed. Even though not 100% confident, I know I'd still do incredibly well in a Nidan grading with everything else.

Then you do feel your worthy of nidan? Then go for it and worry about ‘worth’ from its lofty elevation!

But don't want to get my Nidan as any sort of leverage to another style. If anything I'd welcome being knocked back much lower. Very uncertain..

So

Masochist!

 

[_Simon_164 195]

Go for it. It's a win-win for you regardless of the situation. With all the hard work you've put into your MA over the years you have a strong base and likely deserve a nidan, being on an overall equal footing with others of that rank. If you don't pass, you've had the testing experience and a hard-to-refuse reason for your teacher to go over material with you.

That's a good point I guess... it doesn't take anything away from the huge amount of effort I've put in over the past two years... I'll think about it... my motivation is at an all-time low at the moment which is telling, but will ponder... The stuff we haven't covered properly is not all the new requirements, I have worked on the other required stuff, but that still needs work..

3 possibilities here: 1. He doesn't fully understand the kata and foundations of your style. 2. He does but doesn't care and/or has low standards. 3. He's happy with your ability at this point and after nidan will start drilling down to the advanced stuff.

1) He seems to understand quite basic stuff, but not really deeper body mechanics. Even when I asked about several movements in kata and power generation stuff he couldn't really explain properly..

2) I know he definitely cares, about the students and karate means alot to him, but yeah the standard just seems way too variable. I do agree that you need to alter things for students according to the individual but I feel he does that a bit too excessively.. I'm still seeing brown belts not doing some basic things properly and it really frustrates me... it's not something they're physically incapable of doing either. It's not necessarily an instruction thing because these things are being instructed in class, but nothing seems to change and people are still being graded. Almost like a 'near enough is good enough' approach at times..

3) Possibly..

Don't get discouraged.

Thanks so much, I really appreciate your thoughts and I value them quite alot. I am quite discouraged at this point, but will try not spiral and let this be a launching point for my journey ahead, whatever that may be...

 

[_Simon_164 195]

Yes teaching can be a learning experience but it prevents you practising, getting the reps into your learning process, which is why I’ve avoided it except in very special circumstances.

Yes exactly my feeling on that..

Your curve is flattening due to your current teacher. I think the solution is fairly obvious!

Yeah, and I am fully aware that once the kyu grades are passed there is less new material and more refining. But the guidance just isn't there

What do you specifically understand by the term, ‘depth of practise’? Can you quantify it in terms of your expectations?

Yeah really good question. When it comes to this, I look at other groups within my particular style, what I read in my studies about it, and also what I've experienced training with the others. There seems to be a real depth of principle based learning taught, and also real understanding of deep body mechanics, power generation and sensitivity training. On camps and yudansha training we really honed in on it, it wasn't just surface level stuff but ways to control the body and feel what was going on. It's not a thing I can perfectly quantify, but it reflects in the quality of students and instructors I've trained with. I learned sooo so much training with the others, stuff I've been really hanging out to learn. I always convinced myself to stay at my current dojo thinking I can attend camps and seminars and try to incorporate that into my own training, but it's sort of hard when not trained regularly in my dojo.

What I don't mean by it, is coming up with infinite bunkai applications for kata which is what some people mean.

I think you may be seeking validation for what you know is the best thing for you to do. I think your heart is probably right and you need to move on.

Maybe...

If you were awarded nidan, do you think it would be of worth? Will you have earned it as you earned shodan? If you think not, I’d defer taking it; you don’t want a sham grade

Yes and no haha. I have certainly improved my ability and knowledge/understanding since the last grading, just not to the degree I would have thought. It definitely would just not feel the same as my shodan grading, and I would honestly feel that it means less. It doesn't feel like it means as much to me, and I don't have much real excitement about it if that's the right word..

It has no real objective meaning because the level is so variable between associations and even dojo. The meaning is entire subjective but doesn’t necessarily require time and effort quantifying. Spend that time analysing blocking angle or shifting your centre of mass etc…

Yeah true.

Then you do feel your worthy of nidan? Then go for it and worry about ‘worth’ from its lofty elevation!

I guess so, I'd meet most of the standards but I don't really know what the standard is anymore... it's almost like the framework which I thought things were based in has been thrown out and it's a bit disorienting, I don't know what means what anymore... hence my reservations about grading...

Masochist!

IT MAKES ME FEEL ALIIIIIVE. Haha no no, just happy to go down a few levels if it means relearning things properly.

Thank you

 

[Gyakuto164 173]

Yes exactly my feeling on that..

Yeah, and I am fully aware that once the kyu grades are passed there is less new material and more refining. But the guidance just isn't there

I wonder if the smorgasbord of information and guidance one receives on seminars and courses is an unrealistic expectation in day to day classes? Regular dojo training is more about repetition and bedding movements into your cerebellum. Seminars are visits to fancy restaurants, regular dojo classes are like meals at home; the former opens your palette, the latter gives you sustenance.

Yeah really good question. When it comes to this, I look at other groups within my particular style, what I read in my studies about it, and also what I've experienced training with the others. There seems to be a real depth of principle based learning taught, and also real understanding of deep body mechanics, power generation and sensitivity training. On camps and yudansha training we really honed in on it, it wasn't just surface level stuff but ways to control the body and feel what was going on. It's not a thing I can perfectly quantify, but it reflects in the quality of students and instructors I've trained with. I learned sooo so much training with the others, stuff I've been really hanging out to learn. I always convinced myself to stay at my current dojo thinking I can attend camps and seminars and try to incorporate that into my own training, but it's sort of hard when not trained regularly in my dojo.

It’s a phrase I hear quite often, ‘You failed because you lacked depth of practise’ by trying to get that quantified is impossible. I think it comes from mindful, meaningful repetition and lots of it, rather than just going through the motions each time. It comes from making every punch in one’s kihon practise meaningful i rather than just mindless.

What I don't mean by it, is coming up with infinite bunkai applications for kata which is what some people mean.

Some of the bunkai ideas I see are so tenuous as to be useless. It wasn’t so much of a thing in my day…maybe one bunkai per kata technique rather than ten!

Maybe...

Do you have another dojo/teacher in mind? If so, what specifically draws you to them?

Yes and no haha. I have certainly improved my ability and knowledge/understanding since the last grading, just not to the degree I would have thought. It definitely would just not feel the same as my shodan grading, and I would honestly feel that it means less. It doesn't feel like it means as much to me, and I don't have much real excitement about it if that's the right word..

A bit of mushotoku is a good thing as it disinhibits your performance.

I guess so, I'd meet most of the standards but I don't really know what the standard is anymore... it's almost like the framework which I thought things were based in has been thrown out and it's a bit disorienting, I don't know what means what anymore... hence my reservations about grading...

I wonder if your discombobulation is actually because you getting the creeping feeling that progression isn’t a straightforward path of ‘hit these grading points and you’re golden’ but something deeper that is just beyond your reach? The tortuous path may even be dissimilar for different people?

No wonder you’re in a state of confusion!

 

[Tony Dismukes162 58]

He seems to understand quite basic stuff, but not really deeper body mechanics. Even when I asked about several movements in kata and power generation stuff he couldn't really explain properly..

One thing to consider, which might or might not make a difference in your decision ...

Is your instructor lacking in the deeper understanding of the art or is he lacking in the ability to teach and explain that deeper understanding? The two are different.

My old BJJ/MMA coach was extremely skilled and knowledgeable. But he lacked the ability to communicate the fine details of what his body knew how to do. I'm convinced that I was awarded my black belt largely because I had the ability to observe what he was doing and then break it down so other people could understand it.

Contrariwise, one of my blue belts runs our Sunday afternoon beginners class. He's not a particularly advanced or talented blue belt. But he's made the class a success: consistent attendance (often including higher ranks) and the students who attend his classes show consistent improvement. He makes up for his limited experience by thoroughly preparing for each class, including studying instructional videos on whatever topic he's covering.

If your instructor and your training partners have the underlying skills that you want to develop, but can't directly teach them, then you might be at the point where you need to become your own coach, and learn to steal the secrets from their movement.

On the other hand, if the skills and knowledge that you want just aren't there, then maybe you've outgrown your club and need to look around for a new training group.

 

[_Simon_164 195]

I wonder if the smorgasbord of information and guidance one receives on seminars and courses is an unrealistic expectation in day to day classes? Regular dojo training is more about repetition and bedding movements into your cerebellum. Seminars are visits to fancy restaurants, regular dojo classes are like meals at home; the former opens your palette, the latter gives you sustenance.

Oh of course. But the camps etc are very indicative their training, it's more in depth into the particular concepts that are present within our style. These aren't random other styles' camps/seminars I'm speaking of.

Do you have another dojo/teacher in mind? If so, what specifically draws you to them?

I do, but unsure yet if location-wise it's doable... Honestly the quality of their students is amazing, and have experienced their teaching enough times to want to delve in more. Specifically their quality of movement, more pressure testing of stuff (we tend to play it way too safe), and exploration of deeper body mechanics and power generation. The standard seems to be much higher and I can tell from their students. Also their exploration of more internal martial arts concepts that I'd love to explore more.

It's also a bigger group, and I miss being part of a larger organisation to be honest... They seem to offer more training opportunities, camps, yudansha training, also Japan training trips too.

I wonder if your discombobulation is actually because you getting the creeping feeling that progression isn’t a straightforward path of ‘hit these grading points and you’re golden’ but something deeper that is just beyond your reach? The tortuous path may even be dissimilar for different people?

No wonder you’re in a state of confusion!

Ah yeah I'm very much aware of that, and never saw gradings as perfect linear indicators of progress. I guess my issue is that further progression doesn't seem to be in what I'm looking for.. and thinking longer term what I'm being taught is just more things.

 

[_Simon_164 195]

Is your instructor lacking in the deeper understanding of the art or is he lacking in the ability to teach and explain that deeper understanding? The two are different.

Yeah that's a really good question. Honestly I feel it's mostly the former, there have been a few times when he was unable to explain certain movements too. The deeper understanding doesn't appear to be there, and it hasn't been communicated. That being said he is amazing at many aspects and does have quite a knowledge base, but it feels like there were holes in his learning (there were split offs in our style, and his teacher was a student of the main teacher who went his own way and changed quite a few things).

If your instructor and your training partners have the underlying skills that you want to develop, but can't directly teach them, then you might be at the point where you need to become your own coach, and learn to steal the secrets from their movement.

On the other hand, if the skills and knowledge that you want just aren't there, then maybe you've outgrown your club and need to look around for a new training group.

Thanks a bunch Tony this was very helpful. I've certainly tried to be my own coach and have explored this stuff on my own, but unsure how far I can go with it..

It makes it really hard when I'm really well entrenched in the club and we are all pretty close. Hard to detach from that and also to potentially deal with follow-up questions etc... still unsure what I'll do but it's at the point where I just don't even want to go to the dojo on training days. Very much know that feeling well from the past..

I am really really fond of my instructor, and very much like the person and instructor he is. But we'll see..

 

[Gyakuto164 173]

I do, but unsure yet if location-wise it's doable... Honestly the quality of their students is amazing, and have experienced their teaching enough times to want to delve in more. Specifically their quality of movement, more pressure testing of stuff (we tend to play it way too safe), and exploration of deeper body mechanics and power generation. The standard seems to be much higher and I can tell from their students. Also their exploration of more internal martial arts concepts that I'd love to explore more.

Is it far away or something? I used to train with an excellent teacher who’s dojo was a deepest darkest two hour drive away so a visit was four hours plus the three hour lesson. It became gruelling and in the cold wet winter, downright horrid. I gave up after a year or so.

You need to move to the dojo you mention above. ‘In the words of the ancients, one should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths’! - Hagakure.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

3 possibilities here: 1. He doesn't fully understand the kata and foundations of your style. 2. He does but doesn't care and/or has low standards. 3. He's happy with your ability at this point and after nidan will start drilling down to the advanced stuff.

I do wonder if #3 isn't a big part of it. I have seen instructors who coached based on rank, so if you were doing better than usual for your rank, they'd fail to give much feedback. Then when you got to the next rank, they suddenly had an opinion, again. I think this fails the student who spends more time developing for each rank.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's a good point I guess... it doesn't take anything away from the huge amount of effort I've put in over the past two years... I'll think about it... my motivation is at an all-time low at the moment which is telling, but will ponder... The stuff we haven't covered properly is not all the new requirements, I have worked on the other required stuff, but that still needs work..


1) He seems to understand quite basic stuff, but not really deeper body mechanics. Even when I asked about several movements in kata and power generation stuff he couldn't really explain properly..

2) I know he definitely cares, about the students and karate means alot to him, but yeah the standard just seems way too variable. I do agree that you need to alter things for students according to the individual but I feel he does that a bit too excessively.. I'm still seeing brown belts not doing some basic things properly and it really frustrates me... it's not something they're physically incapable of doing either. It's not necessarily an instruction thing because these things are being instructed in class, but nothing seems to change and people are still being graded. Almost like a 'near enough is good enough' approach at times..

3) Possibly..


Thanks so much, I really appreciate your thoughts and I value them quite alot. I am quite discouraged at this point, but will try not spiral and let this be a launching point for my journey ahead, whatever that may be...

Some of what you described here reminds me of my primary instructor. He was really good with new students, but had some real limitations in how he taught. It seemed to be all technical teaching ("move that foot there") and too little using the principles of the movement ("here's how your foot ended up in the wrong place" or "here's why you need that foot there"). When you reach a certain level, that can feel really limiting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I wonder if the smorgasbord of information and guidance one receives on seminars and courses is an unrealistic expectation in day to day classes? Regular dojo training is more about repetition and bedding movements into your cerebellum. Seminars are visits to fancy restaurants, regular dojo classes are like meals at home; the former opens your palette, the latter gives you sustenance.

While that's true, seminars sometimes also give you a glimpse of something you've missed. One specific seminar I attended when I was a brown belt (that's student instructor in that system - I was about 10 years in) set me on the path of looking more at mechanics and why specific positions mattered. My instructor was very strict about placement of feet, for instance, but often skipped over why that mattered in a specific technique. And his corrections were always "move that foot", rather than addressing the error that put the foot in the wrong place (usually shifting weight improperly for the movement). That one seminar made me a better instructor. Mind you, there were also plenty of new and shiny things I saw along the way that were just as boring to those who normally studied with those instructors, but sometimes there was something big to see at seminars, that gave you a window into information you hadn't gotten (and sometimes hadn't been offered).

 

[isshinryuronin54 54]

It seemed to be all technical teaching ("move that foot there") and too little using the principles of the movement ("here's how your foot ended up in the wrong place"

There are too many instructors who aren't well-schooled in their art. Their students end up being not well-schooled as well and when becoming instructors themselves, simply continue this trend, unaware of the deficiency in their knowledge. As these instructors may hold multi-dan rank and have physical skills, it's hard for new students to realize their school has a poor sizzle-to-steak ratio.

 

[_Simon_164 195]

Is it far away or something? I used to train with an excellent teacher who’s dojo was a deepest darkest two hour drive away so a visit was four hours plus the three hour lesson. It became gruelling and in the cold wet winter, downright horrid. I gave up after a year or so.

You need to move to the dojo you mention above. ‘In the words of the ancients, one should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths’! - Hagakure.

Ah nice haha! Yeah it's a little further than my current one. BTW my current one is over an hour drive one-way, and about 2+ hours one-way via public transport/walking, which I travel every weekend. There may be a closer branch about 40mins drive away, but unsure if they're holding adults classes at this stage, will have to enquire.

 

[Fungus2]

The few times I asked intricate questions to higher dan ranks, after thinking alot myself, such as detailed questions of relative force distribution over the two sieken knuckles or questions about exact knuckle/wrist alignment when hitting a non-yielding target, or qustions about counter rotation etc... i never got any deep answers... the typical responses are "you overthink" or "just do it"... which proves not everyone with the skills has in fact reflected upon the why.... some are thinkers/analyzers..(.. other are just doers are dont appreciate seemingly unneccessary questioning or contemplation...

 

[_Simon_164 195]

The few times I asked intricate questions to higher dan ranks, after thinking alot myself, such as detailed questions of relative force distribution over the two sieken knuckles or questions about exact knuckle/wrist alignment when hitting a non-yielding target, or qustions about counter rotation etc... i never got any deep answers... the typical responses are "you overthink" or "just do it"... which proves not everyone with the skills has in fact reflected upon the why.... some are thinkers/analyzers..(.. other are just doers are dont appreciate seemingly unneccessary questioning or contemplation...

Yeah very true. And I guess we don't have to necessarily know it on that level, definitely depends on the practitioner whether they gain any translatable benefits from that understanding. I just am aware of deeper teachings that aren't just on the surface, and no matter how much I tell myself otherwise, I really do want that..

Then again @Fungus I just trained at the Kyokushin dojo just now and we did all-out 2 minute rounds on the body shield. There was NO room for questioning or thinking hahaha which is also something I love!!

 

[Gyakuto164 173]

The few times I asked intricate questions to higher dan ranks, after thinking alot myself, such as detailed questions of relative force distribution over the two sieken knuckles or questions about exact knuckle/wrist alignment when hitting a non-yielding target, or qustions about counter rotation etc...

I bet they hate it when you ask questions, Fungus!

i never got any deep answers... the typical responses are "you overthink" or "just do it"... which proves not everyone with the skills has in fact reflected upon the why.... some are thinkers/analyzers..(.. other are just doers are dont appreciate seemingly unneccessary questioning or contemplation...

On the whole, most of the population don’t like anyone who displays any intelligence (Schopenhauer) and will default to “you over think” and “get on with it”. When the Geeks take over the world, those people will be the first up against the wall