Journey to a new style...

Ahh yeah I forgot about this article, some interesting thoughts in there! I always felt it was more symbolic than a purely pragmatic reason, but who knows. Cheers for that!
 
Things do seem to occur in threes in kata. Not so much as repeating a single technique three times in a row - this is quite rare in the Okinawan kata as a rule. But series of techniques (designed to deal with specific attacks) are often repeated in threes in both empty hand and weapons kata. Jesse's article expresses a few theories for this.

1. Most people are right handed. If we start with the right side, doing them in threes means that side is practiced twice as much. This seems to make sense, but - getting a few extra moves done in consideration of the attacker's or defender's strong side pales in comparison to the scores of repetitions of both sides commonly done during drills! This is especially true of single techniques. While the attacker may grab or punch with his right side, it can be defended using either hand, sometimes dependent on the stance or footwork.

2. Three is a mystical number in Oriental culture. I don't know much about that, but I'm guessing that the Okinawan warriors who brought back the art in the 1700 and 1800's and either reworked the kata or wholly devised them themselves, cared more about their fighting application than mysticism.

3. It facilitates transitions within the kata, providing some sort of balanced structure. This possibly make the kata easier and more convenient to do from a geometric spatial point of view.

4. Three is the minimum number to create a numerical series and enables doing the set in a broken rhythm, an important concept in attacking. This kind of thing is seen in kata, if so taught by the particular instructor. (This was taught to me by my first sensei who introduced the concept in our white belt dojo kata and I still employ it at times in numerous kata.)

Another reason might be that three is an easy number to count to and remember. (I've read that birds such as pigeons/chickens can only count to three - not to infer that karate-ka are "bird brained. 822-440-360 is easier to remember than 822440360. Doing things in threes makes it easier to learn the kata.

Some of these reasons make sense to me, others do not. And the main answer may be lost to antiquity. "It's just the way it's done" works for me.
 
My friend and old work pal completed his PhD with Stephen Hawking; he’s very bright (and a bit awkward at times!). In a dull staff meeting he wrote out my name on a bit of paper, assigned numbers to each letter and then proceeded to apply complex mathematical manipulations to those numbers; calculus, matrices, metrical tensors and eventually came up with a single number., ā€œ You’re a three.ā€ he said socca voce. šŸ˜†

Of course space isn’t nothing…

View attachment 33870
Much later in life I finished my PhD in EE. I am Way to actual/factual for some things, even when it comes to numbers (which I use a Lot). If it is a meaningless exercise, then just why do it? Yes, I get solving for the unknown, but man, the silly things people use for their PhD project just boggles my mind.

I work with something that has never been fully proven to exist every day. I rely on the tangential, applicable evidence and just believe. If you have ever been shocked, it is rather hard not to believe in the existence of electricity.

My path was tougher because I was not a part of a large company and finding/keeping an advisor was difficult. By in-large I ended up doing it on my own. Took an extra year part-time.
 
Things do seem to occur in threes in kata. Not so much as repeating a single technique three times in a row - this is quite rare in the Okinawan kata as a rule. But series of techniques (designed to deal with specific attacks) are often repeated in threes in both empty hand and weapons kata. Jesse's article expresses a few theories for this.

1. Most people are right handed. If we start with the right side, doing them in threes means that side is practiced twice as much. This seems to make sense, but - getting a few extra moves done in consideration of the attacker's or defender's strong side pales in comparison to the scores of repetitions of both sides commonly done during drills! This is especially true of single techniques. While the attacker may grab or punch with his right side, it can be defended using either hand, sometimes dependent on the stance or footwork.

2. Three is a mystical number in Oriental culture. I don't know much about that, but I'm guessing that the Okinawan warriors who brought back the art in the 1700 and 1800's and either reworked the kata or wholly devised them themselves, cared more about their fighting application than mysticism.

3. It facilitates transitions within the kata, providing some sort of balanced structure. This possibly make the kata easier and more convenient to do from a geometric spatial point of view.

4. Three is the minimum number to create a numerical series and enables doing the set in a broken rhythm, an important concept in attacking. This kind of thing is seen in kata, if so taught by the particular instructor. (This was taught to me by my first sensei who introduced the concept in our white belt dojo kata and I still employ it at times in numerous kata.)

Another reason might be that three is an easy number to count to and remember. (I've read that birds such as pigeons/chickens can only count to three - not to infer that karate-ka are "bird brained. 822-440-360 is easier to remember than 822440360. Doing things in threes makes it easier to learn the kata.

Some of these reasons make sense to me, others do not. And the main answer may be lost to antiquity. "It's just the way it's done" works for me.
A bunch of traditional core kata are named just as numbers, examples - 3(battles), 13, 24, 36, 54, 108.
Number 3 is an important number in Chinese culture as Enkamp writes as an example in that previous link the pronunciation of three sound similar to the word for ā€œlifeā€. The Okinawans may not have cared much for such thinking, but they did kept or named their karate katas after specific numbers, and they did appreciate Chinese culture by naming their karate as ā€œChineseā€-handā€. I’m not sure why Okinawans would not be holding thoughts dwelling somewhat toward the spiritual or ā€œmysticismā€, most ancient cultures did/do.
Anyhow, I’m with the idea of ā€œthreeā€ techniques in (a few) kata as holding specific rhythm, broken rhythm one could perhaps say, and that there’s importance to that.

I dug a little deeper in the Karate Nerd webpage and this came up, an idea on and about the history of karate on Okinawa by Patric McCarthy -
Free eBook: The Matsuyama Theory (w/ P. McCarthy)
 
What insight did you gain from this article?

I had just skimmed it through(lots of that karate nerd lingo), the ā€œinsightā€ I (perhaps misunderstoodenly) get from it is that Okinawan karate was not really directly steeped out of actual combat but more out of recreational in the park exercises, kind of just as it’s still done today here in China. And that the many kata we see today are based on just a few(one or two or perhaps three) exercises(kata). One could get the impression that the local Okinawans picked up just fragments from the local Chinese community and eventually puzzled them into something as the katas we see today.
Patric McCarthy also say that no specific kihon/(jibengong) practice was done in those days, which I think make sense, the Okinawans may have not understood, or kept out from understanding the specifics of CMA’s jibengong exercises, they may have thought such exercises looked to weird or boring and just copied some kata sequences.
The story of Anko Itosu learning a kata from a Chinese sailor just staying some days in Okinawa comes to mind, out of that Itosu created the Pinan(Heian) katas
 
The story of Anko Itosu learning a kata from a Chinese sailor
The Chinese seem to be poor sailors as karate folklore is full of shipwrecked Chinese sailors/kung fu experts who washed ashore in Okinawa and graciously shared their art. :p

I had just skimmed it through(lots of that karate nerd lingo), the ā€œinsightā€ I (perhaps misunderstoodenly
This is the reason I posed the question you responded to. I found the article quite scattered and wandering, hard to pin down just what his "Matsumura Koen" theory is.

Okinawan karate was not really directly steeped out of actual combat but more out of recreational in the park exercises
It seemed to suggest this, but Jesse's interjections did more to confuse me than to clarify points. McCarthy clearly states (slightly paraphrased), "for the most part the art was taught in secrecy and kept within the family or by referral to a respected teacher in the Ryuku Kingdom days." (And even up to 1900.)
Patric McCarthy also say that no specific kihon/(jibengong) practice was done in those days
The division of karate into the three K's (kihon, kumite & kata) I think only occurred after its intro into the school system and was broken down to create a curriculum for physical development. There was little/no formal organization in format, technique, method or style of pre-1900 karate.

Regardless of what exercises were conducted in Naha's Matsuyama Park, this represented a small slice of karate's practice. McCarthy did touch on the military/security paths of karate's development in the royal Shuri area which I think is the more major (and earlier) stream of influence.

I wish Sensei McCarthy could present his theory in a more focused, less confusing manner (sans Jesse). His knowledge of historical karate in unsurpassed.
 
Had a really rough morning... but did a little hybrid training session which was nice...

Strangely the number 3 came up a bit, which is symbolic in many ways but also one that's come up as a curiosity for me in a few areas.
Three is a magic number, after all.


Side note: I don't know if you're familiar with School House Rock, but it's basically how I learned everything from the preamble of the constitution to grammar to memorizing multiplication tables as a small child. And this one was a banger. :D
 
Three is a magic number, after all.


Side note: I don't know if you're familiar with School House Rock, but it's basically how I learned everything from the preamble of the constitution to grammar to memorizing multiplication tables as a small child. And this one was a banger. :D
Well... I am sufficiently educated!

That was fantastic haha
 
The Chinese seem to be poor sailors as ...
If Zheng He leaded his ships to sail east (instead of sailing west 6 times) and discover America back in 1400, there won't USA today.

zheng_he_2.webp


Zheng_He.webp

zhang_he_1.webp
 
He had no wife. he was a "eunuch".
euĀ·nuch
[ˈjuːnək]
Noun
eunuch (åčÆ)
eunuchs (å¤ę•°åčÆ)

  1. a man who has been castrated, especially (in the past) one employed to guard the women's living areas in an Asian court.


What was he out sailing for ?
 
What was he out sailing for ?
The true reason was:

The new Chinese emperor obtained control. The old Chinese emperor ran away to foreign country over sea. Zheng He's mission was to locate the old emperor and brought him back to China. Zheng had never found the old emperor among his 6 sailing.
 
The true reason was:

The new Chinese emperor obtained control. The old Chinese emperor ran away to foreign country over sea. Zheng He's mission was to locate the old emperor and brought him back to China. Zheng had never found the old emperor among his 6 sailing.
He sailed all the way to Africa to look, he should have tried Okinawa instead, Jianwen emperor might have gone into hiding there amongst the back then newly settled Chinese community, teaching Karate to the locals for protection if Yongle came to there looking ā€¦šŸ˜Ž
 
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