Jesus Camp.

exile

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So...where the rubber meets the road, how does a person live his life?

Hmmm... you are asking the best question of all. I was about to say `hardest', but then it occurred to me that that's not really true. Of all the people you know, wouldn't you say that most of them are a positive force in the world's life---that they do the right thing (mostly), have the right responses (mostly)? That the world would be poorer if they weren't there? And they're that way, for the most part, without having deliberately worked out a detailed blueprint for how they were going to live. I've always thought that, Lord of the Flies and other exercises in fashionable pessimism aside, most people in their local settings do quite well... something happens, though, when you scale things up. A lot of the posts on the `world's tilted axis' thread seem to reflect this sense of something that's wrong with the world on a larger scale intruding its way into ordinary daily life.

Most people are not absolute moralists, nor are they knee-jerk relativists. They live pragmatically---if they didn't, life in society wouldn't be possible. And I suspect that if you work out in detail what a pragmatic approach to social existence requires, it would look a lot like what Heretic's `contextual' approach to moral choice is.

I guess we'll just have to wait to find out till he writes his book on it! ;-)
 

Blotan Hunka

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Most people are not absolute moralists, nor are they knee-jerk relativists. They live pragmatically---if they didn't, life in society wouldn't be possible. And I suspect that if you work out in detail what a pragmatic approach to social existence requires, it would look a lot like what Heretic's `contextual' approach to moral choice is.

I find that people like to be absolutist regarding their opinions and relativist towards those who disagree with them. ;)
 

exile

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I find that people like to be absolutist regarding their opinions and relativist towards those who disagree with them. ;)

That sounds like a very pragamatic approach to me ;-)

Actually, it reminds me a bit of something that I once read by a social psycologist named Anthony Wallace who was interested in mathematical models of the way people view their transactions with other people. He came up with a very interesting formal proof of the claim that, looselys speaking, it isn't necessary for everyone in a society to have the same mental map of their interactions with others. There are, for quite ordinary interactions, thousands of maps which differ but which are mutually compatible. You don't need lockstep uniformity of perspective to have a harmonious society, one that `works'. All you need is to ensure that the diversity of models are organized so that people with wildly different views of what's going on can interact in a way which meets their respective expectations---and the point of the proof was that there are a vast number of such ways. It struck me then, and still does, as a very plausible way of thinking about how societies work in practice.
 

exile

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You guys give me a headache. :)

Better than a stomach ache, I guess... or a toothache. Yes, that's it! Think of it that way---you read our posts and don't get a toothache! There---doesn't that feel better already? :wink1:
 

Marginal

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Better than a stomach ache, I guess... or a toothache. Yes, that's it! Think of it that way---you read our posts and don't get a toothache! There---doesn't that feel better already? :wink1:
We'll be safe as long as there's no posts involving kittens soaked in honey, covered in marshmellows, and cooing baby talk then. ;)

Off topic, but the brief snippet of that documentary played on The Colbert Report was truly disturbing. The Kids on Fire lady wants kids as fanatical about Jesus as suicide bombers are fanatic for Allah. Sounded a skosh unhealthy/insane the way Colbert presented it...
 

hongkongfooey

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We'll be safe as long as there's no posts involving kittens soaked in honey, covered in marshmellows, and cooing baby talk then. ;)

Off topic, but the brief snippet of that documentary played on The Colbert Report was truly disturbing. The Kids on Fire lady wants kids as fanatical about Jesus as suicide bombers are fanatic for Allah. Sounded a skosh unhealthy/insane the way Colbert presented it...


Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. Somehow, I feel that this preacher woman will mess these kids up in the long run.
 

Phoenix44

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Well, whatever. If you want an opposing viewpoint, see the movie "Saved" and get a few laughs. It's still a free country. Sort of.
 

michaeledward

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Okay ... so I haven't seen the movie. No desire to see the movie ... but ...


Apparently, Ted Haggard was in the movie. Mr. Haggard was accused of having a relationship with a Gay Prostitute yesterday. The relationship is reported to consist of gay sex and meth use.

And ... Mr. Haggard apparently has a weekly phone call with the President of the United States.



This ... is called ... irony.
 

Makalakumu

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Okay ... so I haven't seen the movie. No desire to see the movie ... but ...


Apparently, Ted Haggard was in the movie. Mr. Haggard was accused of having a relationship with a Gay Prostitute yesterday. The relationship is reported to consist of gay sex and meth use.

And ... Mr. Haggard apparently has a weekly phone call with the President of the United States.



This ... is called ... irony.

Apparently, Mr. Haggard and President Bush have a lot in common. Both are (were?) drug users and both had relationships with gay prostitutes.

Jeff Gannon ring a bell?

Ah the Ironies of Evangelical Christianity!
 

michaeledward

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You know, I really don't like that I brought this up. I don't care if this Haggard guy is gay. I don't care if he's having an affair on his wife. I don't care if he likes to use Meth.

That he can and does call the President every week, really kind of bugs me. Why does he get the audience? Because he is ridiculed by the administration (see David Kuo)?

The hypocrisy is obscene.

That this guy is human, and suffers human failings ... I really shouldn't be bringing that up.

If you're going to be in the closet ... keep all of your opinions in the closet, eh?
 

michaeledward

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OK ... I have to reverse myself.

I was kinda feeling some sympathy for this guy. But, I just saw an interview between Richard Dawkins and Reverend Haggard. I no longer feel sympathy for the National Evangelical Movement.

If you are brave enough ... quickly take a trip over to crooks and liars. The video clip is about 6 minutes ... at about 4:30 ish, the Reverend takes a dive off the deep end into a pool with no water.

Again ... that this lunatic gets a weekly call to the President is obscene.
 

Makalakumu

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OK ... I have to reverse myself.

I was kinda feeling some sympathy for this guy. But, I just saw an interview between Richard Dawkins and Reverend Haggard. I no longer feel sympathy for the National Evangelical Movement.

If you are brave enough ... quickly take a trip over to crooks and liars. The video clip is about 6 minutes ... at about 4:30 ish, the Reverend takes a dive off the deep end into a pool with no water.

Again ... that this lunatic gets a weekly call to the President is obscene.

I posted the full video that Richard Dawkins was making when he interviewed Mr. Haggard in this thread...

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41220
 

michaeledward

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In keeping with having reversed myself ... I just found this ... I am so sorry. I do need to stop looking at this train wreck.

This is from another evangelical pastor.

http://theresurgence.com/md_blog_2006-11-03_evangelical_leader_quits

Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.

It is not the fact that Haggard is gay; it's that his wife won't 'DO' him right, and hasn't visted the gym often enough.

One wonders which 'team' the pastor is taking one for?


EDIT -

A wife who is not sexually available in the ways of the Song of Songs ..... Good Graciousness - My wife studied Kenpo for several years - She'ld 'Effing' Kill Me

- END EDIT.
 

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