Jesus Camp.

[hardheadjarhead]

A new documentary that's coming out:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/jesuscamp/trailer/

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/


Regards,



Steve

 

[heretic888]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Jesus. Tap. Dancing. Christ.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Jesus. Tap. Dancing. Christ.

No, no, no!

It's Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter

The first testament says "an eye for an eye."
The second testament says "love thy neighbour."
The third testament ... Kicks ***!!!

Jesus Christ: If I'm not back in five minutes, call the Pope.

 

[hongkongfooey]

Great. First we had islamic nut bags trying to enforce their will on us. Now, we have a bunch of fundie evangelical nut bags to take things a bit further. Brainwash anyone?

 

[tsdclaflin]

Great. First we had islamic nut bags trying to enforce their will on us. Now, we have a bunch of fundie evangelical nut bags to take things a bit further. Brainwash anyone?

What's the difference between "brainwash" and "training"? Do we believe in the benefits of martial arts? Do we teach our children the benefits of martial training? Is it brain washing?

Thank God we live in a country where I can teach my children what I want and you can teach your kids what you want. As long as your children aren't trying to kill my children, we are both within our rights.

All "spiritual" training could be called brain washing whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddism or whatever.

Sincerely,
A black belt "fundie evangelical nut bag"

 

[Kacey]

What's the difference between "brainwash" and "training"? Do we believe in the benefits of martial arts? Do we teach our children the benefits of martial training? Is it brain washing?

Thank God we live in a country where I can teach my children what I want and you can teach your kids what you want. As long as your children aren't trying to kill my children, we are both within our rights.

All "spiritual" training could be called brain washing whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddism or whatever.

Sincerely,
A black belt "fundie evangelical nut bag"

I agree - as a teacher, I try to expose my students to as much of the world as possible - but years ago, when I offered to come into classes and teach kids about Chanukah (after about 20 kids asked me) I was told, almost universally, that the teachers were concerned how it would look if a Jewish teacher was teaching students about Judaism - they were concerned that the parents would see it as proselytizing.

I am by no means particular observant, but I think that spreading correct information about various religions is the way to better understanding - not making comments about stupid movies that (however unintentionally) come out as negative towards other peoples' belief systems.

In addition, having looked at the sites - the movie is about, by it's own description

A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement

and the need for members of this community to teach their children to handle such roles appropriately - now, I may not agree with their beliefs, or even their methods, but I do agree with their desire to prepare their children for their role within society.

 

[hongkongfooey]

People can teach their kids whatever they wish, I really don't care.
But, this lady is a nut bag. Watch the video clips. She herself says that she wants the children to have the same passion for jesus, that radical islamic suicide bombers have for allah. Then in another clip you have another person asking a room full of eight year old kids, if they are willing to die for jesus. Nut bags.

 

[Kacey]

People can teach their kids whatever they wish, I really don't care.
But, this lady is a nut bag. Watch the video clips. She herself says that she wants the children to have the same passion for jesus, that radical islamic suicide bombers have for allah. Then in another clip you have another person asking a room full of eight year old kids, if they are willing to die for jesus. Nut bags.

They may well be - luckily, we live in a country where "nut bags" have the option to say what they like, teach what they like - whether we like it or not. I'm sure her opinion of you (and even more, of me) is not any better, and I see no reason to stoop to that level.

 

[heretic888]

What's the difference between "brainwash" and "training"?

There's a big difference, actually.

With genuine "training" or "teaching" or "education" or "learning", there is a genuine concern for the healthy growth and development of the student. If the student ends up seeing things differently from the teacher or doing things differently then the teacher, than it is perfectly acceptable provided the student came to that from a mature perspective based in independent thinking, personal responsibility, and balanced cognitive processes.

"Brainwashing" takes place when there really is no concern for the growth and development of the student. There is only concern that they act and respond in the way you want them to. The perspective they are coming from or the cognitive processes they used to come to this state is irrelevant. All that matters is the product, not how they got there.

In "teaching", it is perfectly acceptable to disagree with the teacher or the authority structure if one has sound reason for doing so. In "brainwashing", disagreement is unacceptable.

Another key feature to "brainwashing" (outside of shut-in communities) is the wholesale attempt to "convert" others to your position after the fact. Because, ultimately, the "brainwashed" do not really care about the thinking or reasoning or experiencing that brought you to where you are. They only care if you agree with them.

This movie is clearly a documentary about "brainwashing", not "training".

Laterz.

 

[hongkongfooey]

They may well be - luckily, we live in a country where "nut bags" have the option to say what they like, teach what they like - whether we like it or not. I'm sure her opinion of you (and even more, of me) is not any better, and I see no reason to stoop to that level.

I am sure her opinion of me wouldn't be very high, I won't lose any sleep over it. Some people may think she is great, and a messenger of God. I wouldn't want my children anywhere near her or her flock.

 

[hongkongfooey]

What's the difference between "brainwash" and "training"? Do we believe in the benefits of martial arts? Do we teach our children the benefits of martial training? Is it brain washing?

Thank God we live in a country where I can teach my children what I want and you can teach your kids what you want. As long as your children aren't trying to kill my children, we are both within our rights.

All "spiritual" training could be called brain washing whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or whatever.

Sincerely,
A black belt "fundie evangelical nut bag"

I don't know about you, my martial arts training isn't about spirit and being a good person. It's a selfish pursuit about efficient self protection. And, it was my choice to train.

Religion, on the other hand is introduced to children by their parents. They don't have a choice in whether they want to attend services when they are young. That is why it is important for this lady to get the children in her camp. If she can instill fear at a young age, she will have control over them. This woman doesn't want these children to think, she wants them to be subservient to her brand of religion.

I think the real reason for her camp is political. People like this want to run the lives of others through the church. A sure path to civil war in America is through a theocracy.

 

[Kacey]

I am sure her opinion of me wouldn't be very high, I won't lose any sleep over it. Some people may think she is great, and a messenger of God. I wouldn't want my children anywhere near her or her flock.

I rather doubt her opinion of me would be high either, and I doubt that she'd want my children near hers at all (Judaism might be catching, y'know) - but isn't it nice that we can legally disagree with her?

From The American President, one of my favorite movies:

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I rather doubt her opinion of me would be high either, and I doubt that she'd want my children near hers at all (Judaism might be catching, y'know) - but isn't it nice that we can legally disagree with her?

From The American President, one of my favorite movies:

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

Kacey,

Sure, it's great to be able to disagree with others.

I spent a lot of time growing up with a Jewish family and I didn't catch anything! They didn't force their views on me and vice versa. In fact they treated me more like family, than the vast majority of Christians that I knew back then. The Christians were always judging everyone they met, and preaching all the time. It got old, quick. To me it seems that Christians are always screaming about religious tolerance, but are rarely tolerant of others.

 

[Kacey]

Kacey,

Sure, it's great to be able to disagree with others.

I spent a lot of time growing up with a Jewish family and I didn't catch anything! They didn't force their views on me and vice versa. In fact they treated me more like family, than the vast majority of Christians that I knew back then. The Christians were always judging everyone they met, and preaching all the time. It got old, quick. To me it seems that Christians are always screaming about religious tolerance, but are rarely tolerant of others.

Sadly, this is all too often true... and it may be the case with this "Jesus Camp" (and in fact I suspect that it is) - but I will not deny anyone their right to pass on their views, or educate their children to meet the future, no matter how much I might disagree with them... and I try not to classify groups of people by the beliefs of a few of them, because I've been lumped into too many groups myself in the past.

 

[Brian King]

I recently had the chance to hear the two filmmakers pimping their show on a couple of radio stations. Listening to the two film makers made me long for the days when documentaries were just that, not the biased agenda driven monstrosities that they have seemed to become. Here is a review from Michael Medved eye on entertainment.
http://images.michaelmedved.com/images/pdf/jesuscamp.doc

“JESUS CAMP


Jesus Camp is the name of a new documentary that is bitterly hostile to Evangelical Christianity.

CLIP: “There’s some new brand of religion out there: everything they do, they say they do in the name of God.”

That’s Air America talk show host Mike Papantionio whose harsh commentary punctuates the film and gives the lie to the director’s stated intention of presenting an objective view of a fervent Christian youth camp in North Dakota.

CLIP: “The churches that God likes to go to are churches where people are jumpin’ up and down.”
“I do think I’m different from other kids because we know Jesus.”
“Brittney Spears, Lindsay Lohan: we as Christians - I do not believe in that.”

Heavy-handed editing, menacing music and explicit comparisons to the Taliban and the Nazis provide an unfair context for the movie’s likeable kids and probably wonderful families. Officially un-rated, only…

ONE AND A HALF STARS for the one-sided, propagandistic Jesus Camp.

That’s a wrap. I’m Michael Medved for Eye on Entertainment”

Not the most unbiased person out there but honest about it, his reviews have saved me much money and I have regretted ignoring his warnings in the past. This is a movie that I will not be seeing.

Forewarned is forearmed

See you on the floor soon
Friends
Brian King

 

[heretic888]

Brian,

With all due respect, I couldn't helped but be amused when I read that. The entire notion of "personal objectivity" is nothing short of a popular fantasy. An opinion, by its very nature, is anything but "objective" --- no matter how well-grounded it is in facts and evidence. A point-of-view cannot be objective or else it is not a point-of-view.

Whenever I hear the argument of "bias" and we're not talking about statistical procedures, that always comes across to me as basically saying "well, I disagree with my opponent's conclusion but I don't have the intellectual werewithal to refute his arguments, therefore I'll just say he's not being objective". Everyone and everything is biased, so it's really a non-argument. It's basically akin to condemning someone's position just because it exists in the first place. It's intellectual nonsense.

Personally, I am much more interested in accuracy than I am in bias. A statement can be completely "biased" but still be completely accurate and factual at the same time. So far as I can tell, nothing from the aforementioned clips or the trailer was anything in the way of inaccurate --- unless there is something specific you would like to highlight.

But, hey, that's just my opinion.

Laterz.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Not the most unbiased person out there but honest about it, his reviews have saved me much money and I have regretted ignoring his warnings in the past. This is a movie that I will not be seeing.

I'll go see it.

This reminds me of the Michael Moore movie, "Fahrenheit 9-11" thread of some years ago where people were dissing the movie without having actually seen it. I've seen the same done with "The Passion of the Christ" and "Brokeback Mountain." People based their opinions on what they heard, or what they'd been told...and didn't check it out for themselves.

Regardless of the film maker's bias, the actions and the words of the characters in the film may well be worth seeing.

As for the reviewer saving you money...how would you know?


Regards,


Steve

 

[Swordlady]

Did anyone else catch this statement in the front page of the official website:

The film is a first-ever look into an intense training ground that recruits born-again Christian children to become an active part of America's political future.

Not to mention that the background music is downright creepy.

I also watched the videoclips. I'm leery about the way Becky Fischer appeals more to the children's emotions, rather than their hearts. And there is a certain...cultness...about it.

After being a part of an ultra-conservative Christian church with many cult-like practices for over 12 years, I could smell this stuff a mile away...

 

[hardheadjarhead]

The woman who is the centerpiece of the documentary likes it. She sees it as a positive film showcasing what she believes.

She, at least, doesn't see a bias.



Regards,


Steve

 

[heretic888]

I also watched the videoclips. I'm leery about the way Becky Fischer appeals more to the children's emotions, rather than their hearts. And there is a certain...cultness...about it.

After being a part of an ultra-conservative Christian church with many cult-like practices for over 12 years, I could smell this stuff a mile away...

I'm not so sure whether this camp could fall under the categorization of a "cult" in the way that social scientists use the term. However, it does seem to exhibit several of the charactertistics associated with cults --- rigid absolutistic morality, dichotomizing "us vs them" thinking, an insulated shut-in community structure, and a desire to "convert" in both the private and the political sector.

Whatever the case, I have no doubt "camps" such as these will be damaging to these children's development in the long run. Scary stuff.

Laterz.