I've got a warning

Manny

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Now it was my turn, I've got a warning from my sambonim. Last night I went to dojang witjh my dobok's top but with a black pant. As I entered dojang I ask sambonim permition to wear the black pants because the white pants of my dobok was dirty in the laudry. Sambonim told me it was ok and I got inside the mat.

However doing poomse sambonim aproached me and told me the next time I showed class with another color but white and other kind of gi but the aproved dobok he will whip me with his correctional bambu stick. I was amazed because of that and told him to remeber that I asked permition to trainin with the black pants, that if this ofended him he could stoped me and did not allow me to train that. Sambo told me by regulation (KUKI/WTF) there has to be uniformity inside dojang and all students and sambonim must to wear the aproved dobok.

I undertand that, but at the time I hadn't the white pants so that's why I asked permition to traing that way, sambonim only smiled and told me it was ok for that time.

I've got the message, only withe dobok with black v collar.

Manny
 

terryl965

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Yes manny they are coming down pretty hard on this stuff, I was at the US open and was toldby many top GM that the **** will be hitting the fan over the nextyear. They are going to make everything the way it needs to be.
 

Bill Mattocks

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However doing poomse sambonim aproached me and told me the next time I showed class with another color but white and other kind of gi but the aproved dobok he will whip me with his correctional bambu stick.

I hope he didn't mean that literally. Not my place to judge your organization, but I'd never permit that to be done to me. My parents 'spanked' me when I was a child. I'm nearly 50 years old, nobody strikes me as a form of punishment. I've been made to do pushups, which seems much more appropriate to adults.
 
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Manny

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I hope he didn't mean that literally. Not my place to judge your organization, but I'd never permit that to be done to me. My parents 'spanked' me when I was a child. I'm nearly 50 years old, nobody strikes me as a form of punishment. I've been made to do pushups, which seems much more appropriate to adults.

Well.... it's a hard thing to review but in my country things are a little diferent, a teacher sometimes is seeing like a tutor or an extension of the parents so a profesor/teacher can punish/repremend his/her pupil if need it. When I was a boy several times my dad went to my elementary school to see how I was doing (recently my dad told me when I was in college he or my mom went several times to see my grades and how I was doing and this was in college!!!), any how my dad went to my elementary school and told my teacher (in front of me) that if I was unpolite or my grades were low he (the teacher) could spank me. My dad gave permition to my teacher to punish me if need it. This was almost normal back in those days.

My sambonim can aply correctives to the students, most of the times is a smack with the palchagi in the back, or a a hit with his slender bamboo stick to the legs to get full atention of the student. I must say sambonim never beats a student, he aplies just a reminder of BEHAVE YOUR SELF.

No one (student or parent) has ever complied, the parents know their children go to dojang not only to learn TKD but to learn values,honor,edcuation,respect,etc.

In the past (back in 80's) there was one time my former sambonim had to correct a black belt (18 yo if I recall) beating him doing sparring, but as long as I remeber sambonim twice asked respect and good behavoir to this young man without response, sambonim those days could control all the class just with the sight.

I know of moms to ask help to sambonim to correct their sons/daughters and sambonim does it.

Just as a matter of fact, my actual sombonim some time told me how Dai Won Moon aplied punishment correctives to his students and most of the times this correctives were very harsh.

Yes there are sometimes the corrective is 50 push ups.

Manny
 

Sukerkin

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I am a little surprised to hear that that sort of thing goes on these days.

I would have thought that a simple admonition that if you can't come to class with the proper clothes then you can't come to class would be sufficient?

Beyond the first couple of weeks when I just didn't have the kit, I have always trained in black hakama and iaigi, for that is our correct garb for training and to do otherwise would not be honouring the long traditions of my koryu art.

I can't conceive that anyone would want to study the way of the sword and not also wish to be correctly dressed but for a rough and tumble art like TKD the odd week in the wrong coloured trousers doesn't seem like it should be a 'big deal'. Even getting a 'warning' seems a bit strong for me.
 
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Manny

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Some how I understood my sambonim, all students must wear the aproved dobok, however there will be some times we won't wear the aproved dobok and must wear maybe a black pants a and a polo shirt for example. In fact yestarday one of the exchange students was using a black pants and a white tshirt, ofcourse this is a new guy who needs to buy his dobok and sambonim allows the use of sport clothes till the student gets his dobok (not weeks just some days), however I ask permition and it was granted maybe sambonim was a little harsh to told me about the next time I will get a reprimend but that's the way he is and I have to bow.

Tonight I will have to get from somewhere a white pants, and yes I know I need to buy a new dobok but need to save up some money to do this.

Manny
 

Bruno@MT

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A couple of things:

1) Have a spare set. You never know when you'll have a red-sock incident.
2) Your sabomnim was out of line imo. If it bothered him, he should have saied so before. Saying it is fine and then saying that it bothered him aftewards is silly
3) I've heard enough stories of Japanese sensei using a shinai to 'correct' their students. Not within Genbukan afaik, but I've heard stories from several independent sources.
 

Ken Morgan

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Ignoring the validity of spanking or hitting a child, Manny I agree with Bill, someone physically touching me for discipline reasons is not going to happen. You are an adult, your dojo leader is an adult, any form of physical discipline is unacceptable.

I practice the same art and school as Sukerkin, we dress the same, but if you want to wear while, blue or black, even in any combination, its not an issue. Just show up and practice. At a grading, a competition or if you are visiting another dojo, always remember you are representing the club, act like it, including dressing appropriately.
 

granfire

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oye veh...

Definitely get a couple more pants (or whole uniforms, depending how you wear them) (lol, red sock incident! :D)

I have nothing to add otherwise...
 

puunui

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Last night I went to dojang witjh my dobok's top but with a black pant.


I did that, black pants with white top, for a little while in the 80's. Now I don't even have any black dobok pants.

One Hapkido kwan, the Taemookwan, founded by GM KWON Tae Man, had the following designations for different dan ranks:

1st Dan: White top, white pants.
2nd Dan: White top, black pants.
3rd Dan: Black top, white pants.
4th Dan and higher: Black top, black pants.
 

dancingalone

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His dojang, his rules. That said, is this really a mandate handed down from the KKW? Or is it merely a custom? For what it's worth, Hee Il Cho's group uses a variety of colored uniforms, including black and blue, and I believe he offers his people the opportunity for KKW certs if they want.

We wear white in my TKD class, but merely out of principle (tradition) and because white uniforms are the cheapest.
 

Empty Hands

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My opinion on correcting adult students in such a way: if you need it I don't want you there, this isn't an elementary school class. Adults should be able to motivate and hold themselves to the proper discipline, if not, they know exactly where the door is. I'm not a babysitter, nor am I a child.

Plus, when you start talking about "correcting" students with sticks, it tends to attract entirely the wrong sort of personality. The sort of personality who has no business teaching anything.

My class was like Bill's - pushups were the worst we ever got, and it was always sufficient to get the desired behavior.
 

ballen0351

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Different country different rules
When I was training with the South Korean Marine Corps we were at the range shooting. If one of them missed the target there Squad leaders would hit them with sticks. It was normal to them.
 
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Manny

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As I wrote before, here down in Mexico things are diferent. When sambonim hits a student with the palchagui in the back he does not hurting the student just to reprimend him/her. When sambonim hits the legs of a student with the stick it's juts once, I've never seen sambonim beating severily a kid, it's just one hit and the person instatainly gets the message.

Offcourse if sambonim takes the s..... out of my daughter with the stick (beaten her) I would do something, offcourse if sambonim takes the s.... out of me (trying to beat me) I would stop him.

The palchagi smacking (most of the times) and the stick is only a corrective thing not a way to beaten a student.

My point was (in my first post) that I asked permition to sambunim and he allowed me without saying a thing and then he told me what you already know, this confused me because: a) He could denied the permition to wear the black pants or b) He could told me from the begining that would be the first and the last time I could wear colored clothes inside the mat. In what ever the case I would take it respectfully.

My sambonim it's not a monster, my sambonim is not an abusive man, and he does not like to hit people, my sambonim is a respectable man, some times a little strict but that's all, if he was a kid beater I can guarante you no any single parent will allow his/her children take TKD lessons from him.

Manny
 

granfire

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We understand, I am sure.
it's sometimes an eye opener when we see how things are done in different parts of the world.

But I do think I would have been set back a little if I had asked beforehand and then afterward being told that it was not ok. I think that is the harshest part.

I think it would not have shocked me if he had said right away 'sure, today you are good, but don't do it again'.
 

Empty Hands

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My sambonim it's not a monster, my sambonim is not an abusive man, and he does not like to hit people, my sambonim is a respectable man, some times a little strict but that's all, if he was a kid beater I can guarante you no any single parent will allow his/her children take TKD lessons from him.

If he was what you say, then he would not have threatened to hit you for doing something he himself gave you permission to do.
 

jthomas1600

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Many when he came and reprimanded you was it very public or did he kind of quietly do it face to face? If he called you out in a very public way I would be upset. If it was quieter I would give him some slack. I run a supply vessel servicing the offshore oil and gas industry. I have a crew of 12 including me. Often times a crew member will ask for me something (Putting off some work until tomorrow to watch a futbal game is a good example) and I'll say yes. And as the game goes on and I'm thinking about the work that should be getting done I regret my decision. I won't undo my decision, but I might go to the guy and say "it's OK this time, but in the future when there's work to do it gets done before watching futbal". Maybe it was like that for your instructor. You did just kind of show up out of uniform and say "is this OK?" Maybe it caught him off guard.
 
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Manny

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Many when he came and reprimanded you was it very public or did he kind of quietly do it face to face? If he called you out in a very public way I would be upset. If it was quieter I would give him some slack. I run a supply vessel servicing the offshore oil and gas industry. I have a crew of 12 including me. Often times a crew member will ask for me something (Putting off some work until tomorrow to watch a futbal game is a good example) and I'll say yes. And as the game goes on and I'm thinking about the work that should be getting done I regret my decision. I won't undo my decision, but I might go to the guy and say "it's OK this time, but in the future when there's work to do it gets done before watching futbal". Maybe it was like that for your instructor. You did just kind of show up out of uniform and say "is this OK?" Maybe it caught him off guard.

He aproached me when we were doing poomsae and quietly talked to me. I felt a little upset because he already allow me to train in black pants and then ask me to not wear the black pants anymore but my aproved dobok or he would reprimend me.

Offcourse when my dobok's pants will be clean and dry I will use it with my dobok jacket, I already know sambonim does not like colored clothes (doboks or gis) in class, and you can wear white sport clothes when dobok is not available.

Yes, sambonim has another way of punishment, like squats,crunches and pushups and some times he uses the palchaguis and stick.

Manny

Manny
 

igillman

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You can always look at it this way, you need never worry about what to say if you miss a class. Just tell the instructor that you spilled something on your dobok just before you were going to leave the house to come to class.

It's that sort of junk that puts me off trying to find a place to train. If you are a good student, come to class often and always wear the correct uniform then maybe the instructor can cut you a little slack when it comes to not having the right pants once in a while. You are an adult, you know that you have to wear the right stuff and you do almost all of the time. If he feels that reprimanding you for not having the right pants will help you "make the effort" to bring them next time then he does not appreciate the effort you went through when you realised that your normal pants were not suitable and you found a replacement and still came to class ready to learn and train.
 
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