Is Your School Part Of A Larger Organization?

[MJS]

Thought that we could discuss the pros/cons of being an independant school or one that is part of a larger organization. Granted, there are alot of politics in the arts, so I'm thinking that would be one reason to be seperate. However, if thats the route that your school takes, what usually happens as far as promotions and having a source of material to refer back to?

Mike

 

[trueaspirer]

My school (tang soo do) used to be part of the federation, but then broke off (I'm not entirely sure why).
Now even though it costs more, it is more independent, and forms and stuff are sometimes taken out (good thing and bad).

 

[painstain]

my schools are part of the world youn wha ryu tae kwon do association.
i'm a new instructor (been teaching for about a year) and am glad to be part of a great organization. i have my instructors numbers for any questions and we have advanced class twice a weak where instructors have meetings and talk and learn from our divission leaders zach and katie shaw (4th dans) wwha are also my instructors. so access is easy for me. but we have instructors info online as well for those who are far from the leaders.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Today, My son and I belong to a large organiztions with schools all over Hawaii and the mainland.

Has many advantages, If traveling to other places and if a school is nearby you can train there. A fellow kempo student is working on his masters in college the east coast and found a school from our organzition and trains there.

Many seminars, teachers training classes are held every month. This is good when your organization is big.

We were in a one man self own/run Shotokan Karate school and the Sensi quits....no one to take over...and it ended.

Our organization is growing every year....far apart...some Instructors make a few changes from the norm. The closest is loss....some instructions are lost....Aloha

 

[terryl965]

Thought that we could discuss the pros/cons of being an independant school or one that is part of a larger organization. Granted, there are alot of politics in the arts, so I'm thinking that would be one reason to be seperate. However, if thats the route that your school takes, what usually happens as far as promotions and having a source of material to refer back to?

Mike

I guess the Kukkiwon for in tense purposes, also USAT and AAU.
Terry

 

[pstarr]

My school serves as the headquarters for the Yilichuan Martial Arts Assn.

 

[michaeledward]

Our school is part of a larger organization called ... 'Huk Planas'.

Mr. Planas has his 'Parker Planas Lineage' thing going, but that seems to be more of a loose federation of schools.

Mr. Hogan brings Mr. Planas comes in to town a few times a year. And that is our connection to the wider world.

 

[tshadowchaser]

My school is on its own at this time. We associate with several large organisations but we do our own thing

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I personally am a member of the PKC, USMA, PKA, and ICMAU. However I am submitting my application of the United States Karate Alliance and AIKIA. I am probably going to pursue school charters from the USKA and AIKIA though and PKC if they offer it

 

[ginshun]

At the moment we are independent, but my instructor is in the process of becoming affiliated with a larger organization.

 

[Kacey]

Yes, it is. When I started instructing, my school was affiliated with my instructor's class, which was, in turn, part of a larger organization; we have, since that time, left that organization for another, and both of our classes are affiliated with that organization. Affiliation allows for greater standardization in technique and instruction, and provides greater opportunity for training with a variety of seniors. That being said, however, some organizations exist for the benefit of the leaders of the organization and not the students; should I ever feel that the organization to which my class belongs was detrimental to my students, I would leave.

 

[stickarts]

I have worked with a few organizations over the years which allows me to continue to learn from those with more experience than I (or different experience) both in martial arts and in life, but at the same time we maintain our own freedom as far as what is taught and how I teach it in our school.
This works perfectly for me since we can help each other yet I can direct my school as i wish to.
We have already established a very strong base within our school and in our area and remaining independent is my most likely future!
I consider us our own very small organization at this point.

 

[matt.m]

I go to the Tae Kwon Do Karate Club. It is the school where the Moo Sul Kwan Grand Master instructs. Moo Sul Kwan is in MO, FL, IL, MS, and Colorado.

 

[IcemanSK]

My school belongs to the US Chung Do Kwan Association under GM Edward Sell. There are pros & cons to being involved in an organization.

The cons: You have to answer to someone else (to a greater or lesser degree) for the decisions you make & how the school is run.

Pros: (In no particular order) A sense of community with other schools. A connection that allows students to attain rank that means more than "My instructor says I'm this rank." Portabilty of rank should a student go elsewhere.

I weighed it out when I wanted to open my school & saw that belonging to a good organization was better than being independant for me & my students.

 

[Last Fearner]

Like Iceman, I too am part of the U.S. Chung Do Kwan Association. I have been with other organizations in the past, but the USCDKA is exceptional, in my opinion. You can run your school under the direction of a USCDKA Chief Master, Professor, or Grandmaster who will help you with your curriculum, but will not control every aspect of your training, or you can get your school charter, and have direct access to Sr. Grandmaster Ed Sell (First Non-Korean Kukkiwon 9th Dan - and founder of USCDKA) anytime you need to call his office.

There are a lot of resources out there, and it is best to tap into them, and you can't beat the rock solid credentials offered from a genuine 9th Dan, and his connection to the Kukkiwon. If anyone ever comes in my Dojang and questions my rank, I just let them look at the signatures that are at the bottom of my certificate. Iceman's students and my students get the same authentic backing to their geup, and Dan Certificates.

It's nice to belong to a good Taekwondo Family!

CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Matsubayashi-ryu Sensei]

We're not part of any organisation ... but maybe we should be. I'd like to be a Super-duper soke-doke Doctor Grand Poobah.

Everyone wants a title and the 'grander the better'. Let's be real .. there are only 2 types of black belt .. those who teach and those who don't, and one isn't any better than the other. This nonsense of Masters, GrandMasters, Super Grandmasters, not to mention 'Professors' (and just what university did these people get their PhDs from?), have to go. Let's go back to the old system of Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi. A system which is separate from the Yudansha ranks and is a better indicator of teaching ability.

And while I'm ranting .......... what is going on with all these high ranking Dan holders?

Someone decides that he wants to teach his own system, so he breaks away and his new 'organisation' awards him with an 8th, 9th, or 10th dan. PATHETIC!

Let's look at this from a historical standpoint; Funikoshi taught what became known as Shotokan (and no, he didn't call it that) and had been awarded a 2nd dan. That's right folks, a 2nd dan and created his own system of karate. Nagamine of Matsubayashi-ryu had only a 6th dan when he created his system. So it's time to get over this obsession with rank and start training again.

p.s.: I'm only a 2nd dan which I've proudly held for 17 years. It might be nice one day to receive my 3rd, but it's not something I'm seeking. So there!

 

[KOROHO]

Our main art is Koroho Goshinjutsu and we are part of the International Martial Arts & Culture Federation which is based in Osaka. IMACF is the only governing body for Koroho and is headed by the Founder. My school is the USA honbu.

For Iaido we are part of the San Shin Kai.
For Aikido, I am still essentially affiliated with AANA/Utada Sensei.
For Goshin Budo Jujutsu am pretty much on my own although I attend seminars with old Seishinkai seniors.

The draw back to going independent is that you are putting an end to your learning, or atleast seriously curtailing it. You either need the input from seniors in your style or you have to bring in material from other styles to make up for what you are lacking.

In the case of our Goshin Budo which comes from Shogo Kuniba who combined Motobuha Shito Ryu, Yoshinkan Aikido and Judo (and to some extent Hakko Ryu for his American students), I was able to seek out teachers of each individual art to keep my own learning going. I do not have this luxury in the Iaido. Were I to go independent, I and my students would suffer.

When you look at the statistics of people who earn legitimate rankings and titles and reach the upper senior levels, you realize that the vast majority who have "gone independent" (in other words saying "I no longer need a teacher") are fooling themselves and doing a great dis-service to thier students.

Unless you know all there is to know about your style, stay with the main organization. If the politics is too bad, find another style.

 

[Carol]

My school is independent which has been fine with me. The were a very well established school when I joined them with good teaching, good business practices, and fair tuition. Suits me fine

 

[CuongNhuka]

Cuong Nhu Oreintal Martial Arts Association, or CNOMAA for short. We do a good job of keeping everyone in line (no McDojos), and make sure that everyone is on the same page.

 

[Last Fearner]

Hello to Mr. "Matsubayashi-ryu Sensei,

I really do not want to do battle with you here over this issue, but some of your comments seem to go beyond the point of personal preference, and into a bit of a dis-respectful bashing of something you clearly do not fully understand.

We're not part of any organisation ... but maybe we should be. I'd like to be a Super-duper soke-doke Doctor Grand Poobah.

If this is what you want, I believe Hanna-Barbera has some cartoons that might interest you. On the other hand, if you show respect to others who had studied Martial Art their entire adult life, and made a career of teaching, you might simply say that the titles are not for you.

Everyone wants a title and the 'grander the better'. Let's be real .

I don't know if you use the title "sensei" in your school, but it is a title nonetheless. Those who seek the titles, or bestow it upon themselves, often do not deserve it, but those who have earned the distinction between beginner, intermediate and advanced, be it color belt, Black Belt, or instructor-ship titles, should not be insulted for having the title bestowed upon them by their seniors.

there are only 2 types of black belt .. those who teach and those who don't, and one isn't any better than the other.

Actually, in my experience, there are 3 types of Black Belts: Those who don't teach, and train only for themselves, those who teach, but are not qualified to teach, and those who teach and are qualified. Of the qualified teachers, there are 3 types: Those who teach the color belts, those who teach the Black Belts, and those who teach the teachers. Just as the public schools have teachers in each classroom, and a person with the title of "principal," and a person with the title of "superintendent." The "Kwanjang" is the Superintendent over the principals who run the schools. I would hope that those who teach the teachers, are better in skill, knowledge, and understanding than the teachers.

This nonsense of Masters, GrandMasters, Super Grandmasters, not to mention 'Professors' (and just what university did these people get their PhDs from?), have to go.

Here again, I can respect your opinion if you say that you believe titles are not necessary, however, to call it "nonsense" is dis-respectful to those who find it appropriate, and honor these titles for what they represent. Highly respected Universities use the title "Professors" to indicate someone who "ranks above an Associate Professor" (American Heritage Dictionary, 2000), and who is qualified to teach at the university level.

Furthermore, it appears you are confused about the "PhD" if you ask what university did Martial Art "Professors" attend. "PhD" is an abbreviation for the Latin "Philosophiae Doctor," or "Doctor of Philosophy." Certainly, the Martial Art has not gained wide-spread accreditation among major Universities, however the substance of our curriculum is no less authentic, or valuable within the real world. There is no reason that a well-established, and authentic organization of true Martial Art Masters cannot create, within their own realm of expertise, levels of instructorship, Masters of the trade, and Professors who they certify are qualified to teach the younger Masters.

Let's go back to the old system of Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi. A system which is separate from the Yudansha ranks and is a better indicator of teaching ability.

I can respect your opinion that this is what you think is a "better indicator of teaching ability." It seems that your "old system" of "Renshi, Kyoshi, and Hanshi," are just trading one set of "titles" for another one that you prefer. The Overlook Martial Art Dictionary was contributed to by such noted experts as Jhoon Rhee (Taekwondo), Richard Kim (Karate), Michael Staples (Kung-Fu), and Ed Parker. This dictionary defines Renshi as a "polished expert," Kyoshi as "teacher grade," "expert instructor," or "assistant professor" [ooops!], and Hanshi as a "Master." Titles are titles. Why bash someone else's titles, and promote your own.

As for a "yudansha" rank system, consider that sandpaper can be graded as fine, medium, or coarse. However, it can also be further divided to describe varying degrees of "very fine," "very coarse," etc. Today, there are many more Black Belts in existence, hence the appropriate need to indicate who is of beginner, intermediate, and advanced of each level.

And while I'm ranting .......... what is going on with all these high ranking Dan holders?

Someone decides that he wants to teach his own system, so he breaks away and his new 'organisation' awards him with an 8th, 9th, or 10th dan. PATHETIC!

I agree that it is "pathetic" when people claim to create things they know little about, and promote themselves to 10th Dan. On the other hand, more people are spending a life-time studying the Martial Art, becoming more knowledgeable, and more skilled than many of the Masters of the past. These people deserve the recognition.

So it's time to get over this obsession with rank and start training again.

p.s.: I'm only a 2nd dan which I've proudly held for 17 years. It might be nice one day to receive my 3rd, but it's not something I'm seeking. So there!

Not everyone who respects the significance of rank is "obsessed" with it. You say your rank is 2nd Dan, and that it might be "nice" to one day receive 3rd Dan. Thus, you note a quality of advancement from one degree to the next. Why should this not continue above 3rd Dan. It's nice that you are proud of where you are, but so should others be proud of their degrees as well.

I understand you not wanting to seek these things for yourself, however (no disrespect intended to you), I do not believe a 2nd Dan should be telling the rest of the Martial Art community that the Ranking System, and titles they honor is "nonsense" and should be done away with. I'm not going to give you negative "rep" for your post because I don't do that. Your opinion is your opinion, and I respect that. I would just prefer you state it with more tact, and respect to others.

Sincerely,
CM D. J. Eisenhart