I'm starting a new Escrima class. So far it's just a few people and most of them are damn near broke. We work out at a park and I have plenty of equipment, I have no overhead and I don't care about the money. But I do care about commitment. On the one hand, my instructor isn't charging me a penny, but I've known him for 25 years (once he was my student in another art) and I do my best to find ways to show my appreciation (one of which is starting this class). On the other hand, it's been my experience that the typical student values what they pay for. If I don't demand a minimal cash commitment, they drift away after the novelty wears off. What do you think?
Is teaching for free a bad idea?
- Thread starter geezer
- Start date
The only problem is this serious people will not be in that class, they are casual students. If you want serious student charge something, if the money is not an issue take what you make and buy can goods and drop it off at your local food bank or use it to better the community you live in by sponsoring some childern for sports activities. A trust fund could be set up for the childern hospital to help buy coloring books and toys for the patience. Also go to the local Senior center and buy them some things they could use like toilitees and such. There is always a way to give back and see have people see value in what you do. Just let them know from the get go to little you charge per month will be going for this and that. Best of Luck.
We operate through the Columbus Rec Center network, which entails that we don't charge anything (beyond stuff like boards for breaking, testing fees and so on). I don't think it hurts us, but yes, if we were charging something we might see a bit more commitment from students. Since it's not an option for us, there's no point in our worrying about it. But I do wonder every so often if people would stick with it more if we were charging them something up front...
Geezer,
You're actually correct, that it may very well take the charging of tuition to get people going.
I know it sounds like a salesman's point of view, but when it comes down to it, people will perceive a value associated with your program. Even if your program is one that offers high quality instruction, there are always going to be a good number of people (the bulk of them, in fact) who are going to perceive it as not having a high value, simply because they don't see any cost justification.
I've seen many schools that have had excellent teachers, do poorly in terms of business, simply because they weren't charging enough (under 50 / month). In your customers' minds, they are going to value something *because* they paid for it.
On the other side of the coin, I've seen many a school that had mediocre to poor instruction, yet, were charging 100+ / month. The key here, is that the students / customers, in their minds, were getting their money's worth out of what the school offered. If they perceive a value, then they'll pay for it.
The way I see it, charge what you think the market will bear. If that means that you charge your poor students 20 / month, then so be it. If they really like the training, then they'll make themselves pay for it. If not, they probably would have quit sooner, rather than later.
You'll still probably be teaching the same number of students, and at the same time, end up with some more $$$ in your pocket.
You're actually correct, that it may very well take the charging of tuition to get people going.
I know it sounds like a salesman's point of view, but when it comes down to it, people will perceive a value associated with your program. Even if your program is one that offers high quality instruction, there are always going to be a good number of people (the bulk of them, in fact) who are going to perceive it as not having a high value, simply because they don't see any cost justification.
I've seen many schools that have had excellent teachers, do poorly in terms of business, simply because they weren't charging enough (under 50 / month). In your customers' minds, they are going to value something *because* they paid for it.
On the other side of the coin, I've seen many a school that had mediocre to poor instruction, yet, were charging 100+ / month. The key here, is that the students / customers, in their minds, were getting their money's worth out of what the school offered. If they perceive a value, then they'll pay for it.
The way I see it, charge what you think the market will bear. If that means that you charge your poor students 20 / month, then so be it. If they really like the training, then they'll make themselves pay for it. If not, they probably would have quit sooner, rather than later.
You'll still probably be teaching the same number of students, and at the same time, end up with some more $$$ in your pocket.
Charging money does turn away the "looky-loos" but it can also turn away people who would be serious and dedicated students.
The problem is that not charging money can turn people away, too.
Some people won't take you seriously as an instructor if you don't charge money.
Also, charging no money can attract "looky-loos" - but I've never found that to be much of a problem because they usually move on once they realize that it actually takes work and that there is no magic pill to become [insert favorite MA icon] overnight.
An instructor I highly respect told me once, "What I teach is priceless - I can't put a price on it by charging for it - but my time and effort is worth something. That's what I charge for."
So the bottom line is what's it worth to you? You don't have to calculate it in monetary terms. Whatever you get from it - your own training time, experience teaching, hanging out with friend doing something you enjoy, whatever; is it worth the time/effort you put into the teaching?
You're investing time/effort. If you feel the return on that investment is worthwhile then don't worry about it. If you don't feel the return is worthwhile then charge whatever you need to charge to make it worthwhile - and remember that what you charge doesn't have to be monetary either - it can be barter.
Mike
The problem is that not charging money can turn people away, too.
Some people won't take you seriously as an instructor if you don't charge money.
Also, charging no money can attract "looky-loos" - but I've never found that to be much of a problem because they usually move on once they realize that it actually takes work and that there is no magic pill to become [insert favorite MA icon] overnight.
An instructor I highly respect told me once, "What I teach is priceless - I can't put a price on it by charging for it - but my time and effort is worth something. That's what I charge for."
So the bottom line is what's it worth to you? You don't have to calculate it in monetary terms. Whatever you get from it - your own training time, experience teaching, hanging out with friend doing something you enjoy, whatever; is it worth the time/effort you put into the teaching?
You're investing time/effort. If you feel the return on that investment is worthwhile then don't worry about it. If you don't feel the return is worthwhile then charge whatever you need to charge to make it worthwhile - and remember that what you charge doesn't have to be monetary either - it can be barter.
Mike
championmarius
Yellow Belt
Its a tough call to make. If you don't need the cash, but would like some commitment, have them pledge, or donate, money to a charitable organization or cause in return for services rendered...
Or charge a fee, with the knowledge that all funds gathered will be used to pay for a group trip to a seminar or martial vacation in the future. If they pay towards it, they have incentive to continue training until the trip, to get their money's worth...
Or charge a fee, with the knowledge that all funds gathered will be used to pay for a group trip to a seminar or martial vacation in the future. If they pay towards it, they have incentive to continue training until the trip, to get their money's worth...
In the past, the schools where I have taught at, have awarded scholarships to those who are in bad financial straits. We allowed them to train without charging them tuition, just to let them enjoy the martial arts. We gave them the gi for free, but they would still have to pay for exams at a reduced cost, though.
While the idea was a noble one, it also failed to produce any students who stuck around for the long term. Most of these "scholarship students," would quit shortly after joining (within a month), and those who stuck around for more than a month, would usually quit at any sign of having to put forth any amount of money, even if it were for a small amount.
I can still remember one particular scholarship student, who had decided to play some tackle football with his buddies after Karate classes, while wearing his gi. Those gi's were designed to be able to hold up to a decent amount of wear and tear, such as the stresses coming from basic grappling moves, but they were NOT meant to serve the same purpose as a football jersey.
Anyways, this student then said "can you give me a new gi?" I told him that I would allow him to purchase one from us at *our* cost, which would have been about 17 bucks at the time. At that time, he said "forget it" and never came back.
Another scholarship student stuck around for 3 months. So, I gave her an exam form to fill out. Instead of charging the usual 30 dollars for an exam, I crossed out the 30 and replaced it with "15" to let her have a discount. That's when the mother came up to me and said that her daughter was "not ready." It was a load of crap, of course, since her daughter was actually a good student, and ahead of the others by a good bit. I tried to tell her that there's no point in holding her back, since there's nothing more for her to learn at the white belt level.
The mother then asked if I could just teach her daughter the more advanced techniques, without making her take the test. I told her that I couldn't do that. She then said "I don't have the money, and can't afford the exam."
She grabbed her daughter, and left in a huff. She even ended up putting the gi that we gave her daughter (for free) in the consignment shop. A few months after that, I ran into her at the store, and saw her shopping cart loaded with many bottles of Mad Dog 20/20 malt beverages and several packages of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. I estimate that the value of the bottled / canned hangover liquids to be easily 40 dollars, if not more.
To me, this says that the mother perceived no value in the martial arts program that she was given for free, and somehow got it in her mind, that free things are cheap in terms of actual value. If she places the value of Mad Dog 20/20 and PBR beer above the value of the martial arts, then she would have yanked her kid out sooner or later, even if I gave her a free exam.
Is this to say that ALL scholarship students are bad news? Of course not. There may very well be a hidden gem that will turn into a true blessing for your dojo. If anything, the above mentioned girl could have been a truly good student, if it weren't for the parents.
Unfortunately, though, in my experiences, those hidden gems are very, very rare...
While the idea was a noble one, it also failed to produce any students who stuck around for the long term. Most of these "scholarship students," would quit shortly after joining (within a month), and those who stuck around for more than a month, would usually quit at any sign of having to put forth any amount of money, even if it were for a small amount.
I can still remember one particular scholarship student, who had decided to play some tackle football with his buddies after Karate classes, while wearing his gi. Those gi's were designed to be able to hold up to a decent amount of wear and tear, such as the stresses coming from basic grappling moves, but they were NOT meant to serve the same purpose as a football jersey.
Anyways, this student then said "can you give me a new gi?" I told him that I would allow him to purchase one from us at *our* cost, which would have been about 17 bucks at the time. At that time, he said "forget it" and never came back.
Another scholarship student stuck around for 3 months. So, I gave her an exam form to fill out. Instead of charging the usual 30 dollars for an exam, I crossed out the 30 and replaced it with "15" to let her have a discount. That's when the mother came up to me and said that her daughter was "not ready." It was a load of crap, of course, since her daughter was actually a good student, and ahead of the others by a good bit. I tried to tell her that there's no point in holding her back, since there's nothing more for her to learn at the white belt level.
The mother then asked if I could just teach her daughter the more advanced techniques, without making her take the test. I told her that I couldn't do that. She then said "I don't have the money, and can't afford the exam."
She grabbed her daughter, and left in a huff. She even ended up putting the gi that we gave her daughter (for free) in the consignment shop. A few months after that, I ran into her at the store, and saw her shopping cart loaded with many bottles of Mad Dog 20/20 malt beverages and several packages of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. I estimate that the value of the bottled / canned hangover liquids to be easily 40 dollars, if not more.
To me, this says that the mother perceived no value in the martial arts program that she was given for free, and somehow got it in her mind, that free things are cheap in terms of actual value. If she places the value of Mad Dog 20/20 and PBR beer above the value of the martial arts, then she would have yanked her kid out sooner or later, even if I gave her a free exam.
Is this to say that ALL scholarship students are bad news? Of course not. There may very well be a hidden gem that will turn into a true blessing for your dojo. If anything, the above mentioned girl could have been a truly good student, if it weren't for the parents.
Unfortunately, though, in my experiences, those hidden gems are very, very rare...
Great! Thanks for helping spread the FMA.
That has been my experience. You have to charge at least a token amount or they won't stay. We have to disabuse ourselves of the notion that most of our students are like us--dedicated lovers of the arts. Until they become that, charging is mandatory. I've learned the hard way that being a "nice guy" just gets you students who aren't invested in the study of the art.
Brian S
Purple Belt
I don't agree with the people saying you have to or need to charge.
I study goju and have for free since I was 17yrs old(I'm 34). I had five serious students for more than five years that earned blackbelt and three of them still come around. We have had three students for the last four years that are brownbelts and are serious students.
I have also found it useful that I can pick who I teach. Some people just need to be run off imo.
People pitch in for belts, certs, and t shirts when asked and are usually closer than a normal dojo in my opinion.
Nothing wrong with not charging. You don't need to get money to find 'serious students'.
I study goju and have for free since I was 17yrs old(I'm 34). I had five serious students for more than five years that earned blackbelt and three of them still come around. We have had three students for the last four years that are brownbelts and are serious students.
I have also found it useful that I can pick who I teach. Some people just need to be run off imo.
People pitch in for belts, certs, and t shirts when asked and are usually closer than a normal dojo in my opinion.
Nothing wrong with not charging. You don't need to get money to find 'serious students'.
The pros to no-charge are that you're offering self-protection techniques to ANY who may desire to learn it. That itself is a great service to the community.
The way I see it, is that you can't know if you're committed to something without trying it. I doubt you're going to meet someone committed to you and your teaching without having first met and trained at least a little with you. What I'm saying here is, regardless to whether or not you charge your students, you're going to find those who fall away from you, and those who stick with you.
What no-charge also makes easier is a second chance for students who didn't stick with it. Maybe a couple months down the road they want to give it another shot? It's not like they have to pay, so why not? It makes going back easier.
There are plenty of committed people in the world that don't have much money. With current gas prices, that's pretty much everyone now.
However, you also have to figure of the toll it may take on you. Though you have few students now, people tend to flock to things that are free. You're sure to bump into enough "window shopper" students, who just go for a bit of a sample. The number of students you have is surely going to boost significantly. It may get a bit overwhelming at times, and you may need some extra help from another qualified Escrima instructor, who you may have to hire.
Money could help you expand.
It's great that you don't care about the money. However, if you care about your students and your teaching influence, then you may need to charge. That doesn't mean you have to go outrageously high priced. You could just do a monthly plan, where no one's wallets are taking too much of a hit. All proceeds could go to the growth of your practice.
If you charged, you could toy with it a little, offering % cuts from monthly tuition to those who bring in new members or just help you with your cause (like hanging up flyers, business cards, etc).
It will allow you to take in a higher percentage of students with what many could consider an "honest effort". You can make it so your classes do cost something, but it isn't much, and could be even less. Tell your students of the opportunities for lower tuition. Allow them to take pride in your service to them. The students/practitioners are the life of any martial art. Let it be contagious.
Either path you choose, I wish you the best of luck.
The way I see it, is that you can't know if you're committed to something without trying it. I doubt you're going to meet someone committed to you and your teaching without having first met and trained at least a little with you. What I'm saying here is, regardless to whether or not you charge your students, you're going to find those who fall away from you, and those who stick with you.
What no-charge also makes easier is a second chance for students who didn't stick with it. Maybe a couple months down the road they want to give it another shot? It's not like they have to pay, so why not? It makes going back easier.
There are plenty of committed people in the world that don't have much money. With current gas prices, that's pretty much everyone now.
However, you also have to figure of the toll it may take on you. Though you have few students now, people tend to flock to things that are free. You're sure to bump into enough "window shopper" students, who just go for a bit of a sample. The number of students you have is surely going to boost significantly. It may get a bit overwhelming at times, and you may need some extra help from another qualified Escrima instructor, who you may have to hire.
Money could help you expand.
It's great that you don't care about the money. However, if you care about your students and your teaching influence, then you may need to charge. That doesn't mean you have to go outrageously high priced. You could just do a monthly plan, where no one's wallets are taking too much of a hit. All proceeds could go to the growth of your practice.
If you charged, you could toy with it a little, offering % cuts from monthly tuition to those who bring in new members or just help you with your cause (like hanging up flyers, business cards, etc).
It will allow you to take in a higher percentage of students with what many could consider an "honest effort". You can make it so your classes do cost something, but it isn't much, and could be even less. Tell your students of the opportunities for lower tuition. Allow them to take pride in your service to them. The students/practitioners are the life of any martial art. Let it be contagious.
Either path you choose, I wish you the best of luck.
Pacificshore
Purple Belt
I agree with your assessment as that has happened to me in the past. I've found that there are really very few people out there that understand the true value of what an instructor is teaching them when it is free. We are raised to think more along the lines of something of value if there is a cost to it, so why not start by having them pay a nominal daily fee, or maybe charge them quarterly so that they are committed for a longer haul, and then hopefully they have a better understanding of the value of their training.
That's a LOT of PBR!
SageGhost83
Brown Belt
Well, if they are truly interested in what you are teaching and they want to stick with it, then they are going to do that regardless of if they are paying or not. The same is true if they are not committed - they will drift away even if they are paying because they will feel that the money that they spend on your class is better spent on something else that interests them. So paying is not a sure sign of long term committment, and if they are only showing up because they payed then they are probably not very motivated to begin with. It is awesome that you train at a park and don't have to worry about overhead. The dojo is wherever you make it :supcool:.
I tend to agree that charging something makes a difference in the attention level of a student. I have a student who is my neighbor. He started training under me when he suggested he do some work for me in trade for classes. It's worked out well for us both. He worries that I'm getting the short end of the stick.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
Teaching for free. What a concept! I realize this is America, and free enterprise is one of the founding principles, but teaching for free. Hmmm.
I have a form of TB. As in True Believer. The martial arts for me is, well, one of my advocations as well as recreations. My profession is computers. It's were the dough is and I tend to go where it is (not only CICS/COBOL/JES2/VSAM but ASP.NET/VB.NET/SQL, and now VM/VS to, yes old dogs can learn new tricks.)
So I can teach basicly for free. Note I said basicly cause a wise person charges enough to pay of incidentals as well as have a very good libility release.
When I had my own school I did not charge a high price and those who could not afford were given duties to compensate (like sweeping the floors, cleaning the bathrooms, etc..) And the day I open a new one, after I retire, it will be the same. And I'm a hard task master.
What are the advantages of teaching for free?
Well, if you don't like the students attitude, you can say 'bye' real easy. Also you can demand more and push the students harder as you don't worry about them quitting and hurting your bottom line. Also, you call for test when YOU think they are ready, not when the bills come due.
Disadvantages? You don't earn your living doing this, so you have better have a good living doing something else cause it takes up many an evening! Make sure you have a very understanding wife!!!
For me, teaching for free is the way to go. But for others that have a family to feed, I can see it would not be feasible.
Deaf
I have a form of TB. As in True Believer. The martial arts for me is, well, one of my advocations as well as recreations. My profession is computers. It's were the dough is and I tend to go where it is (not only CICS/COBOL/JES2/VSAM but ASP.NET/VB.NET/SQL, and now VM/VS to, yes old dogs can learn new tricks.)
So I can teach basicly for free. Note I said basicly cause a wise person charges enough to pay of incidentals as well as have a very good libility release.
When I had my own school I did not charge a high price and those who could not afford were given duties to compensate (like sweeping the floors, cleaning the bathrooms, etc..) And the day I open a new one, after I retire, it will be the same. And I'm a hard task master.
What are the advantages of teaching for free?
Well, if you don't like the students attitude, you can say 'bye' real easy. Also you can demand more and push the students harder as you don't worry about them quitting and hurting your bottom line. Also, you call for test when YOU think they are ready, not when the bills come due.
Disadvantages? You don't earn your living doing this, so you have better have a good living doing something else cause it takes up many an evening! Make sure you have a very understanding wife!!!
For me, teaching for free is the way to go. But for others that have a family to feed, I can see it would not be feasible.
Deaf
I have found that, as a general rule, students who train without making some form of payment don't appreciate what they're getting. It may be something about the Western Culture, but people seem to decide something is valuable only if they pay for it. People also seem to take greater pride and ownership in something they had to purchase or work for... Ever see someone who never would have given a second thought to abusing someone else's property, who suddenly demands that you handle things with kid gloves when they buy it.
But that doesn't mean that payment must be monetary... You can find various ways to allow students who can't pay cash (or if you don't want money...) to pay for their training, as others have described in examples above.
One thing that I've noticed is that many times students take for granted the set up and preparation involved in clinics or classes, for example... An easy way to "pay" for your training is to help prep the facility.
I think you have to figure out what works best for you. Both way's can work. For myself I charge but it is simply to maintain the Training Hall and to aid in Research and Development. Due to this fact that my expenses are low I have great leeway in who I keep on as a student. I am in the end only interested in training quality people. My book, dvd business keeps everything else rolling.
People do appreciate it more when they pay for something. Otherwise quite often it just does not mean as much.
However find what works for you based on your individual needs but think it through carefully. Good luck!
People do appreciate it more when they pay for something. Otherwise quite often it just does not mean as much.
However find what works for you based on your individual needs but think it through carefully. Good luck!
I would not teach for free for a couple of reasons. First, as stated, people tend to value more what they pay for. In other words, many think if its free, it can't be any good. After all, what you get for free in this country is often the worst of the lot.
Second, my knowledge and skill are worth something. That doesn't mean gouge people, but charge a fair price for what you have to offer. I can't charge the same price as someone with a fully equipped gym, but I can charge what the local economy will support. It's called capitalism. And since I don't make my living teaching Taekwondo, I also have a great deal of flexibility in whom to teach and how (legal liabilities aside).
Second, my knowledge and skill are worth something. That doesn't mean gouge people, but charge a fair price for what you have to offer. I can't charge the same price as someone with a fully equipped gym, but I can charge what the local economy will support. It's called capitalism. And since I don't make my living teaching Taekwondo, I also have a great deal of flexibility in whom to teach and how (legal liabilities aside).
Similar threads
Latest Discussions
-
-
-
-
The "Look! Look at my cool workout!" thread
- Latest: Prince_Alarming
-
-