Is it a good idea to pull your punch back fast?

Gerry Seymour

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What do you train in yourself ?
My primary art is Nihon Goshin Aikido. Its primary influence is Daito-ryu, with secondary influences from Judo and (allegedly) Shotokan Karate. I've trained a bit or dabbled (variously) in a number of other systems over the years, with Judo, BJJ, and FMA (don't know which one) being influential.
 

MrBigglesworth

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- In fighting, do you believe when you fist meets your opponent's body, you don't pull your punch back?
- In training, when you punch on your heavy bag, or into the thin air, do you assume you miss your punch, or do you assume that your punch land?

If you're staying at that range, surely you always pull back. If it doesn't land effectively, you don't want the other person taking it.
Besides, even if it does land, you might need to hit him again, and I sure can't pull out an effective 1-inch punch on the fly. ;-)
The only reason I can think of not to is if you are using that punch to get inside striking range. Then you'll want it still there to grab/clinch or follow through with an elbow, etc.
 

Flying Crane

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Even in grappling, there can be feints and fake openings, just like with striking. If I leave an arm out in grappling, I'm either hoping for them to take it, so they clearly cannot grab the arm. Or I might be trying to convince them I want them to take it, and they're not a great fool, so clearly they can't not grab the arm.
Yes well, we all know not to enter into a competition with a Sicilian when death is on the line.
 

Martial D

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I overall agree with you, but there are two benefits that I can think of to leaving your arm out there.

1. In combat, certain punches can lead to grabs and/or hooking the opponent. So a punch leading to a shoulder grab right into a sweep could work, and not require pulling the arm back. You are taking the risks of the reverse of the above though (more likely to be grabbed, less covered position, balance/mobility issues).

2. In training/practice, leaving it out so that your instructor can look at your fully extended position before your next punch.
I respect that you tried here but I disagree on both counts. A punch should never lead to a grab..they are different types of motions. Feinting a punch and grabbing sure but a commited shot will either land and impact or it will be avoided/parried..neither leaves you in position for a grab.
The second point is.. respectfully, bad training. Training is building muscle memory and if your instructor is having you freeze at full extension to 'have a look' he is doing you no favors by training bad habits into your form
 

Gerry Seymour

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I respect that you tried here but I disagree on both counts. A punch should never lead to a grab..they are different types of motions. Feinting a punch and grabbing sure but a commited shot will either land and impact or it will be avoided/parried..neither leaves you in position for a grab.
The second point is.. respectfully, bad training. Training is building muscle memory and if your instructor is having you freeze at full extension to 'have a look' he is doing you no favors by training bad habits into your form
I dont find the traditional punch and pause drills cause any significant bad habits when used properly. Even relatively new students quickly learn proper finishes to their punches.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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I dont find the traditional punch and pause drills cause any significant bad habits when used properly. Even relatively new students quickly learn proper finishes to their punches.
If you try to drill 1 step 3 punches, you can't freeze your punches into the thin air.


 

Martial D

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I dont find the traditional punch and pause drills cause any significant bad habits when used properly. Even relatively new students quickly learn proper finishes to their punches.
You will not find punch and pause drills used anywhere where competition fighting is the goal. There is a reason for this.
 

Gerry Seymour

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You will not find punch and pause drills used anywhere where competition fighting is the goal. There is a reason for this.
I do think they are a slower path to competence than other drills I use. However, I find they have value for folks who have a problem with coordination and proprioception. Those folks aren't athletic and know it, so aren't likely to show up a lot at places where competition fighting is the goal.

I also find them useful for other purposes that aren't directly tied to fighting competency.
 

Gerry Seymour

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- What are the other purposes?
- Why should we care about it if it's not tied to fighting competency?
I've no idea why you should care about it. That's entirely for you to figure out. I care about things that aren't tied to fight competency, because most of the folks I train will never need their fighting skills. I want to make sure they take away some things that go beyond that scope.

As for those other purposes, I sometimes use simple drills to keep students moving while we're discussing a topic (which is about 75% me talking, in most cases), rather than them standing still or sitting down. So I might be talking about how to keep yourself moving when injured, without aggravating the injury, while they are doing some classical drill that is at least partially related to a fighting skill (stance training, forms, etc.).
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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most of the folks I train will never need their fighting skills.
This is the part that I don't understand. If someone is not interested in fighting skill, why does he want to learn MA for?

Again, I can only speak for myself. If someone has no interest in fighting, I have no interest to teach him.
 
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Alan0354

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This is the part that I don't understand. If someone is not interested in fighting skill, why does he want to learn MA for?

Again, I can only speak for myself. If someone has no interest in fighting, I have no interest to teach him.
I fail to even understand all the questions you ask on different threads have much to do with real fighting. Whether body is vertical or 15deg forward. Whether you pull back the punch or not and the others.

I guess if you don't have anything better to do, sure. Sorry. Just came back with family and check here.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Whether body is vertical or 15deg forward. Whether you pull back the punch or not and the others.
- When your body is vertical, you have no intention to move forward. When your body is 15 degree forward, you have intention to move forward.
- When you pull your punch back, you intend to strike with another punch. When you don't pull your punch back, you intend to establish a clinch.
 
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