A friend of mine recently got a job as a doorman at a popular local bar and was thinking of taking up a martial art to learn some skills to assist him in his work. He was looking at a Hapkido school, a Brazilian jiu jitsu school and a judo school, and he asked me which art would best suit his profession. I told my friend I would get back to him after I sought the knowledgeable advice of those on Martialtalk. My friend isn't that "big", I think 6'1 200lbs, but he's all muscle and very fit. His primary interest is in skills that would suit his job, what art should he take up ??? I will prob post this in the judo forum too, as he was leaning towards judo as well, but I really want to know what Hapkido practitioners think. Thanks alot!!
Is Hapkido a good style for a doorman?
- Thread starter TjThunder
- Start date
I don't practice HKD, but based on what I know of the three arts, all are a good fit. Some styles of HKD emphasize locking more and some less, to the point where it becomes a kicking-focused art. He'd probably want a style more lock-oriented.
For a bouncer/doorman, I'd rank BJJ a clear first choice. After that, Judo works one set of skills and HKD another so it's a hard call. Of course, the right instructor could make any of them the best choice!
I do not think your friend would go wrong in studying any of those three martial arts. Personally I might lean more to Hapkido because of all the joint manipulation (this always came in handy escorting someone or taking them down for myself) and yet BJJ would be fine as well as Judo.
Not a hapkido practitioner here either but I am an aikido-ka which is related. I think that HKD would work very well for that job. The joint locks and manipulations give a person many more options for controlling a rowdy than a punch or kick. Trouble is that joint manipulation, when used to control instead of throw takes a little longer to get proficiency with. It's well worth the effort to learn it though.
Hmm... if I were your friend, I'd get myself some training in something before taking a job as a bouncer... I recall from my younger days that there were always plenty of guys bigger than 6 feet, 200 lbs who sometimes needed to be thrown out of bars, but didn't want to leave yet. How is he going to handle those boys with no training?
To your original question, I agree that Hapkido would be an excellent choice.
To your original question, I agree that Hapkido would be an excellent choice.
Well said...I had a good working knowledge of Shorin-Ryu and some Judo tricks before I started as a bouncer..I also carried a kubotan..
- Thread Starter
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dortiz
Black Belt
For a Bouncer I would highly suggest HKD or similar joint lock based art. I think BJJ is the worst choice. The last place to go in a true scenario is to the ground. A drunk and his friends will have someone kicking you before help arrives. Locking out arms, especially fingers or spinning them in to a choke is what works. Usually firm arm locks walking them out.
Talk to some doormen about whats happened in real scenarios and whats worked.
Dave O.
Talk to some doormen about whats happened in real scenarios and whats worked.
Dave O.
DngrRuss
Orange Belt
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As a hapkido practitioner and a former bouncer/bodyguard/psych worker (20 years), I would rate your 3 choices as follows:
1- Hapkido
2- Judo
3-BJJ
Hapkido, when taught correctly, has both a stand-up striking game, stand-up grappling, and a ground game. Covering all those bases is the best choice for someone in a hostile physical environment. I do not mean the drunks, I mean wooden floors, barstools, glass doors, tables, etc. HKD practitioners tend to train the "hard-fall" concept rather than the "soft-fall" of say Aikido, and, from my observation, even harder than Judo. Hard falls are best for hard surfaces as they distribute more impact and do not rely on a mat to do the distribution for you.
Traditional Judo does have some stand-up work, but BJJ has practically none. Going to the ground automatically and as your primary option in a non-sport environment is just not good strategy and can easily result in your getting really hurt just by doing what you have trained so hard to do.
Just my opinion. But make sure that the HKD school is one that does sparring, allows take-downs and locks while sparring, and has a good grasp of kick-boxing footwork. Also check to see if they do realistic knife/weapon offense-defense, or the stylistic BS that will get you killed.
Hope that helps.
1- Hapkido
2- Judo
3-BJJ
Hapkido, when taught correctly, has both a stand-up striking game, stand-up grappling, and a ground game. Covering all those bases is the best choice for someone in a hostile physical environment. I do not mean the drunks, I mean wooden floors, barstools, glass doors, tables, etc. HKD practitioners tend to train the "hard-fall" concept rather than the "soft-fall" of say Aikido, and, from my observation, even harder than Judo. Hard falls are best for hard surfaces as they distribute more impact and do not rely on a mat to do the distribution for you.
Traditional Judo does have some stand-up work, but BJJ has practically none. Going to the ground automatically and as your primary option in a non-sport environment is just not good strategy and can easily result in your getting really hurt just by doing what you have trained so hard to do.
Just my opinion. But make sure that the HKD school is one that does sparring, allows take-downs and locks while sparring, and has a good grasp of kick-boxing footwork. Also check to see if they do realistic knife/weapon offense-defense, or the stylistic BS that will get you killed.
Hope that helps.
I'm not sure BJJ would be my first choice. You don't always want to glom on to some guy in a possible multiple apponent bout.
Sean
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
I tend to agree. Also, being a doorman is not a license to maim. Ideally, being able to do joint manipulation is preferable to duking it out or grappling on the ground. Any skills taught in the best of HKD schools take time master. If your friend could find other practitioners who have also worked the door or who have done some security work, he could get some practice on specific scenarios.
A bar or restaurant can be a volatile setting: drugs and alcohol; patrons who want to get a piece of the action when a fight breaks out; every ashtray, glass and flower vase is a potential weapon.
Bumblebee
Green Belt
I agreee with the recent posters that I wouldn't go the way of BJJ, it might be effective in a one on one fight, but then the other guy starts stomping. Also your job is to remove them from the bar, not to make him tap out. So I'd say that Hapkido and Judo would both be really good choices. It's been said that the joint manipulations would work great, but to be able to control it would take time. If your friend has time Hapkido would be great. I don't know much about Judo, but if throwing people is something people can pick up on a bit faster than joint manipulations I'd probably go with Judo. Or just watch Road House a bunch of times. Okay that last sentence was a joke.
The MOST common scenario is the intox patron who decides that he is not going to be thrown out..Add to that scenario the presence of an equally if not more intox buddy who jumps into the middle of things screaming "That's my friend you're ****ing with.".
Gordon Nore said:
Well said..I have always tried to teach my crew NOT to develop tunnel vision when you know a situation is about to go South...I remember pressing my Kubotan into the top of some jerkweeds hand as it reached for a bunch of keys hidden by a napkin to use against one of my own guys..
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Drac,
Years ago, just out of school, I tended bar in a pub that could get rough at times. We didn't have a doorman or a floor manager -- the bartender was it. The guy who taught me had worked a very tough bar in London and had seen everything.
Some years later I happened to be patronizing a restaurant where this guy was working. He was walking a drunk to the door while I was on my way to the restroom. Instinctively I started moving ashtrays, glassware, and bar stools out of his path as he made his way to the door with this customer.
And you're absolutely right -- when the trouble starts, there's no way of knowing how other patrons are going react. I was once restraining a patron who had just flipped his switch, when other customers who knew me started to grab me, which of course made me vulnerable to this guy. I firmly told them to take their hands off me.
Father Greek
Green Belt
Having been a doorman and being an avid practioner of Judo as well as Combat Hapkido I would absolutly recomend Hapkido. To learn to throw properly also takes much time and practice. Time that would best be spent on learning locks, escape techniques and standing counters as well as proper blocking. Avoid the ground at all cost.
Mr. E
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Hapkido would be a great choice IMO.
Whatever choice he makes, he needs some way of controlling someone without first breaking every bone in their body. The joint locks and throws of Hapkido fit this need.
If he goes with a purely stricking art, then he opens himself open to a lawsuit for excessive force somewhere down the line. With Hapkido, he has the option of putting someone in a hold and waiting for the police to show up. I think the LEOs here can tell you that it looks a lot better when they roll up to find a guy relatively unharmed, but under control and cursing a blue streak than when they respond to find some guy knocked out and in a corner.
And with Hapkido, if there are buddies with the guy causing trouble, your friend has the option of dropping the locks and keeping on his feet, stricking out until help arrives.
Hapkido is really a good blended art. It can't strike as well as an art that does nothing but strike. That is just simple logic. The same goes for locks and wrestling. But it is good if you need a balanced approach to an art and do not know what to specialize in.
Whatever choice he makes, he needs some way of controlling someone without first breaking every bone in their body. The joint locks and throws of Hapkido fit this need.
If he goes with a purely stricking art, then he opens himself open to a lawsuit for excessive force somewhere down the line. With Hapkido, he has the option of putting someone in a hold and waiting for the police to show up. I think the LEOs here can tell you that it looks a lot better when they roll up to find a guy relatively unharmed, but under control and cursing a blue streak than when they respond to find some guy knocked out and in a corner.
And with Hapkido, if there are buddies with the guy causing trouble, your friend has the option of dropping the locks and keeping on his feet, stricking out until help arrives.
Hapkido is really a good blended art. It can't strike as well as an art that does nothing but strike. That is just simple logic. The same goes for locks and wrestling. But it is good if you need a balanced approach to an art and do not know what to specialize in.
Another warning for prospective doorman is to WATCHOUT for the ladies..I've had a pitchers of beer and ashtrays thrown at me because I was tossing out some little hotties "boy toy"..Also be EXTRA CAREFUL if you have to seperate ladies fighting..I've had jacket, sweaters and polos torn by some little "Barbie doll" that decides she was going to continue kicking the butt of the other Barbie doll" and attempted clawed her way loose..Oh to have known Combat Hapkido back then...
Good stuff Drac! It actually brought a smile to my face,having been on the receiving end of some nicely manicured nails myself.
Yes..(insert art here) would work in that situation. The real question is if the instructor you eventually pick get you there if you put in the time and effort.
Once upon a time I "checked ID's" at a local watering hole. Half the time I really didn't have to do anything physical..the most action I'd get would to bring in a new keg for the bartenders.
On the other nights,though..it could get nasty real quick-like. I'd recommend not only getting in some serious empty hand training before taking the gig,but also working those same techniques until you horque in a low-light,confined space environment.
For the record..I'm not really a huge guy myself..you just have to:
1. NEVER,ever drink on the job..regardless of what hottie's buying.
2. Pay attention to details.
3. Don't take the drunk's "smack talk" personally. Ever.
I really didn't care for the job. Craptastic pay and dealing with the droonks got old fairly quick.
It's not nearly the "Roadhouse" glamor everyone seems to think it is...and when (and eventually they will) the regulars find out that you "know something" the proverbial fit will hit the shan. Develop a high tolerance for Bruce Lee and Karate Kid noises,stances,quotes,etc.. and you'll be just fine.
Yes..(insert art here) would work in that situation. The real question is if the instructor you eventually pick get you there if you put in the time and effort.
Once upon a time I "checked ID's" at a local watering hole. Half the time I really didn't have to do anything physical..the most action I'd get would to bring in a new keg for the bartenders.
On the other nights,though..it could get nasty real quick-like. I'd recommend not only getting in some serious empty hand training before taking the gig,but also working those same techniques until you horque in a low-light,confined space environment.
For the record..I'm not really a huge guy myself..you just have to:
1. NEVER,ever drink on the job..regardless of what hottie's buying.
2. Pay attention to details.
3. Don't take the drunk's "smack talk" personally. Ever.
I really didn't care for the job. Craptastic pay and dealing with the droonks got old fairly quick.
It's not nearly the "Roadhouse" glamor everyone seems to think it is...and when (and eventually they will) the regulars find out that you "know something" the proverbial fit will hit the shan. Develop a high tolerance for Bruce Lee and Karate Kid noises,stances,quotes,etc.. and you'll be just fine.
