Hapkido = a blend?

[Ceicei]

Hello,

I'm trying to understand Hapkido better. How accurate is this discription: "Hapkido is a blend of TaeKwonDo and Aikido"? A friend gave me that explanation but I'm not sure if it is wholly correct in theory or philosophy. Would it be better suited to say "Hapkido is a blend of TaeKwonDo and Judo?"

The reaosn I ask is because there are many dojos around that profess to teach three specific styles under the same banner: TKD, Judo, Hapkido. Some schools say Kyukido is a blend of all three. :idunno:

I have two friends who are interested in taking up Hapkido. Now, I'm not the best person to ask as I've never studied that style (I wonder why some people think that "anyone who studies 'martial arts' will know about ____________ style" as if we are walking encyclopedias of the martial world?) The only advice I could give them right now is just go to the hapkido schools around in their area, ask a lot of questions about the instructors & teaching philosophy, watch and take a couple of classes to try, and if it feels like it is something you will enjoy, then sign up.

Answers would be much appreciated so that I can be educated about Hapkido and be able to give correct basic information on what it is.

Thank you,

- Ceicei

 

[kenpochad]

Hello,
"Hapkido is a blend of TaeKwonDo and Aikido"? - Ceicei

I had a firend that told me that is TKD & Aikido.
he had his brown in Hapkido

 

[JanneM]

To outsider it could be easier to explain that hapkido is (read looks like) a blend of taekwondo and aikido.

Modern hapkido (after GM Ji) is a blend of Yawara that Choi Yong Sul dojunim thought and mixed with taekwondo and judo.

 

[Paul B]

ODG..ermm.

I think you answered your own question Ceicei. Tell 'em to go check a couple of classes out.

It's just like comparing any other arts. "Is it like Aikido?"..Kinda sorta .."Is it souped up Judo?"..Eh..Kinda sorta..."Is it TKD and AKD mixed?"..no. That would be like oil and water.

My answer would be "It is Hapkido. Go see and most importantly feel for yourself." I hear this line of questioning frequently,especially since I still have buds who are training in Aikido,Judo and Kempo. It's something you have to feel to believe,I think.

Then you get into..Which "style" of Hapkido is being taught..then it's anyone's ballgame..hehheh.

 

[American HKD]

To outsider it could be easier to explain that hapkido is (read looks like) a blend of taekwondo and aikido.

Modern hapkido (after GM Ji) is a blend of Yawara that Choi Yong Sul dojunim thought and mixed with taekwondo and judo.

Greetings

I need to correct a slight mis-statement that leads to more mis-understandings.

True Korean Hapkido from Ji's lineage is a combo of Japanese yawara, Korean TaeKyon kicking art (not tae kwon do), Sam Rang Do (Korean equivalent of Samuri Arts), various weapons and spirtirual teaching introduced by Ji Han Jae.

Tae Kwon Do has nothing to do with Hapkido's techniques, if anything the reverse is true.

Today however there are so many off shoots of HKD anythings possible.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Hapkido isn't really monolithic (and neither is TKD), so I think its a bit simplistic saying HKD is a blend of TKD and Aikido...or Aikijutsu...or Jujitsu, Judo...or any of the softer Japanese arts taught in the pre-war era.

Some of the systems of HKD I've seen are fairly flowing and circular. Some less so. Some do forms, others do not. Some incorporate judo-like throws, some don't...or do to a lesser extent...or to a greater extent.

But it IS eclectic...or used to be.



Regards,



Steve

 

[Mike-IHF]

Ceicei,

I have to agree with some of the other post. Hapkido is not anything like Hapkido. Infact it's like Paul said "oil and water". However, there is a large abundance of Takwondo instructors that say they teach Hapkido, when infact it's just Taekwondo with some Hapkido joint locks thrown in. btw, I see that you are in Utah. Are you close to Hill airforce base? if so we have an instructor out there. His name is Master Scott James. He teaches on base there. If you are close to that area, I will get you the information on his classes. Take care.

 

[JanneM]

Greetings

I need to correct a slight mis-statement that leads to more mis-understandings.

True Korean Hapkido from Ji's lineage is a combo of Japanese yawara, Korean TaeKyon kicking art (not tae kwon do), Sam Rang Do (Korean equivalent of Samuri Arts), various weapons and spirtirual teaching introduced by Ji Han Jae.

Kicks I've seen in Sin Moo Hapkido reseble more taekwondo kicks than taekkyon kicks.
Why isn't judo on your list? I have read from more than one places that judo is mixed in hapkido. I also see judo like throws in hapkido but you don't say there si judo mixed in hapkido...

I do not want to sound stupid nor I want to pic afight. I just have heard these thing ans seen them with my own eyes.

Tae Kwon Do has nothing to do with Hapkido's techniques, if anything the reverse is true.

This is very true. Many TKD school use HKD techniques as theis SD teaching these days. Specially here in Europe.

 

[Paul B]

Why isn't judo on your list? I have read from more than one places that judo is mixed in hapkido. I also see judo like throws in hapkido but you don't say there si judo mixed in hapkido....

Well..if we want to go that route. I think the key here is "Judo like"...there are also "Aikido like" and "Tae Kwon Do like" and "Krav Maga like" and..and..and..ya see?

There are also just so many ways one can perform a Kote Gaeshi or a O-Goshi or a Ude Osae or a Mae Geri or Sumi Otoshi..you can find most of these techniques in some form residing in any of the Arts I mentioned and just about every Art on the planet. Hmm..what makes them "different"? Opinions?

On the other hand we have it that Yudo (Judo) was big in Korea at the time of Hapkido's conception. Kaeshi Waza (reversals in Judo) from hip throws and the like were supposedly mixed in at that time..I'm thinking of DJN Ji's line specifically...Stuart?

 

[Mike-IHF]

Hey Paul,

How have you been. I sent you a pm over on Budoseek.

Kicks I've seen in Sin Moo Hapkido reseble more taekwondo kicks than taekkyon kicks.
Why isn't judo on your list? I have read from more than one places that judo is mixed in hapkido. I also see judo like throws in hapkido but you don't say there si judo mixed in hapkido...

JanneM,

You could possibly say that there were some Judo throws added to Hapkido. Or if going by Japanese history, since Aikijujutsu was one of the oldest forms of Jujutsu in Japan, alot of people say that Judo came from Jujutsu. So if we go by that, that means Choi already had these throws in what he taught to Ji. There is different possibilities. However the only person that would know for sure has passed away.

 

[Ceicei]

Ceicei,
btw, I see that you are in Utah. Are you close to Hill airforce base? if so we have an instructor out there. His name is Master Scott James. He teaches on base there. If you are close to that area, I will get you the information on his classes. Take care.

I live about 1/2 hour away from HAFB. My friend who is inquiring about Hapkido lives closer to there. Please drop me a PM with the information. Much appreciated for your assistance and thank you.

- Ceicei

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Hey Paul,

How have you been. I sent you a pm over on Budoseek.



JanneM,

You could possibly say that there were some Judo throws added to Hapkido. Or if going by Japanese history, since Aikijujutsu was one of the oldest forms of Jujutsu in Japan, alot of people say that Judo came from Jujutsu. So if we go by that, that means Choi already had these throws in what he taught to Ji. There is different possibilities. However the only person that would know for sure has passed away.

Kano, Judo's founder, never studied Aikijujutsu. The throws the two styles do are rather different.

Choi wasn't the sun source of technique, remember. He was one of a number of "soft" stylists in Korea after the war. Jujutsu and Judo--possibly some Aiki arts as well-- were taught all throughout the peninsula for the 40 years of the occupation.


Regards,


Steve

 

[JanneM]

You could possibly say that there were some Judo throws added to Hapkido. Or if going by Japanese history, since Aikijujutsu was one of the oldest forms of Jujutsu in Japan, alot of people say that Judo came from Jujutsu. So if we go by that, that means Choi already had these throws in what he taught to Ji. There is different possibilities. However the only person that would know for sure has passed away.

I am very new to hapki arts... (Just wanted to tell you guys)

I judo like throws where part of daitoryu and Chois teachings why cant we find those tecniques from Yong Sul Kwan or Jungkikwan? (So I have been told) These trows are also absent in modern day aikijujutsu.

Like you said there is some judo throws added in hapkido. I dont think that these throws (as they are performed today) where part of hapkido when CHoi was teaching Ji. (Now I am talking only Ji lineage because that is the far most spred lineage in the world nowdays)

 

[Mike-IHF]

Steve,

I was not trying to go down the road of history of Judo. If my post came off that way, I'm sorry. What I was trying to relate to is the Judo throws as far as Hapkido is concerned.

Choi wasn't the sun source of technique, remember. He was one of a number of "soft" stylists in Korea after the war. Jujutsu and Judo--possibly some Aiki arts as well-- were taught all throughout the peninsula for the 40 years of the occupation.

I'm not saying Choi was the sun source of technique. But when it comes to Hapkido's beginnings there is only 2 people that know the truth. And Choi was one of them. That's all I was trying to say.

I judo like throws where part of daitoryu and Chois teachings why cant we find those tecniques from Yong Sul Kwan or Jungkikwan? (So I have been told) These trows are also absent in modern day aikijujutsu.

Janne,

I think it really all depends on what you consider Judo or Judo "like" throws. And it also depends on what certain teachers decide to teach. Our GM studied in the 60's with Ji, Han, and Myung Jae Nam. Now we could say that Ji added the Judo throws into Hapkido, but then certain teachers styles from that time don't show any of these type of throws. Including us. We might have maybe 2 at most that look anywhere close to Judo. But Kwang Sik-Myung's style, looks to me like it has a major Judo influence. So it's hard to say.

 

[Mike-IHF]

Janne,

Like you said there is some judo throws added in hapkido. I dont think that these throws (as they are performed today) where part of hapkido when CHoi was teaching Ji. (Now I am talking only Ji lineage because that is the far most spred lineage in the world nowdays)

It's really hard to say. Those throws could have been there when Choi was teaching Ji. If you remember Suh Bok-Sup was a Judo practitioner when he started training under Choi. He could have vary well had some influence in incorporating these typs of throws into what Choi was teaching.

 

[JanneM]

Mike-IHF
You are very true Suh Bok-Sup was a black belt in Judo when he started practising hapkido but I was told that he desided to follow Chois teaching and not do Judo any more. Unfotunetly we might never know the truth about this.

My question is why cant we see these judo like throws in hapki arts that dates before Ji's time. Or if these are in there they most certainly are not for beginners (under 3.dan).

Master D'Aloia or master Miller could you tell me if there is judo like throws in Jungkikwan and if so are they what Choi thaught to GM Lim adn what has he said about them?

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Master D'Aloia or master Miller could you tell me if there is judo like throws in Jungkikwan and if so are they what Choi thaught to GM Lim adn what has he said about them?

The throwing techniques that Doju Nim Choi taught to GM Lim ARE NOT Judo style throws! Hapkido throws are for fighting and are to disable an attacker not to allow them to flip out and fall safe! Hapkido throws can be mistaken to be similar to Judo/Yudo but in reality they are very different!

I hope this answers your question Janne M. :asian:

Take care,

 

[searcher]

Even though I have 4 BB's in HKD in my family, I just recently had my first real exposure to it. Having trained in different styles including Judo and TKD, I can see where somebody might get confused about the make-up of HKD. Many of the joint locking moves and throws are shared by some of the aforementioned styles. This could be especially confusing to those of the below black ranks or to those that have had little exposure to other styles.

Master Miller, I am not sure why you think that Judo throws are not meant for disabling your opponent. They are intended to throw the opponent hard enough to keep them from getting up. The reason that they can "flip out" of them is that the one being thrown is very good at ukemi. If they are not good at it they will not get up very easily.

 

[JanneM]

Thank you master Miller. Your ansver was very good.

If we shall continue this matter with you. Have you any knowledge about the tecnical difference of those hapkido throws that might be mistaken as judo/yudo thorws and actual judo/yudo throws. And I mean now the difference in a way Choi donjunim thought them to GM Lim and the way they are done in judo and in hapki arts from Ji line. (What I have seen is that throws are done as the are done in judo in Ji line hapki arts.)

On what levet those trhows that might be mistaken as judo throws come in Jungkikwan?

Searcher: Jigoro Kano took dangerous tecniques away from jujutsu when he made his judo so it could be practissed and competed safely with full power.

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Thank you master Miller. Your ansver was very good.

If we shall continue this matter with you. Have you any knowledge about the tecnical difference of those hapkido throws that might be mistaken as judo/yudo thorws and actual judo/yudo throws. And I mean now the difference in a way Choi donjunim thought them to GM Lim and the way they are done in judo and in hapki arts from Ji line. (What I have seen is that throws are done as the are done in judo in Ji line hapki arts.)

On what levet those trhows that might be mistaken as judo throws come in Jungkikwan?

Searcher: Jigoro Kano took dangerous tecniques away from jujutsu when he made his judo so it could be practissed and competed safely with full power.

I am not sure on your question but I will try to shed a little light on it. You are correct that Kano took out the dangerous techniques from Ju Jutsu/Aiki Ju Jutsu. Hapkido has NO sporting aspect it is for selfl-Defense & spiritual developement as were the Mudo of old. Judo throws can be devestating for self-Defense but are designed to be safer. Some Hapkido throws have a distinct joint locking aspect that I have never seen in Judo style throws. Hapkido throws also have a much different stance than Judo. Hapkido stances are always so you can move quickly and attack and defend even while executing a technique.

In the Jungki Kwan throwing techniques come in at yellow belt.

I hope this helps. :asian:

Take care