Hapkido = a blend?

[Dave Stratton]

Howard

In speaking to Grandmaster Lim during my visit to the JungKiKwan in 1992, he explained to me he held dan rank in several arts, including judo. He stated these facts again on his first visit to the USA in 1996 in GM Mike Wollmershauser's back yard at a picinic in his honor. GM Wollmershauser and Master Keith Puglisi found GM Lim in 1989 in Daegue City Korea. Since that time many hapkido people have benfited from the wealth of knowledge that GM Lim has to share with the world. I ,and many of my colleagues, have a deep respect for GM Lim and his students in Daegue. I would never assume to have greater insight than one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. There is no other GM alive that I respect as much as GM Lim. His opinion is one that I respect a great deal.

Dave

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Howard

In speaking to Grandmaster Lim during my visit to the JungKiKwan in 1992, he explained to me he held dan rank in several arts, including judo. He stated these facts again on his first visit to the USA in 1996 in GM Mike Wollmershauser's back yard at a picinic in his honor. GM Wollmershauser and Master Keith Puglisi found GM Lim in 1989 in Daegue City Korea. Since that time many hapkido people have benfited from the wealth of knowledge that GM Lim has to share with the world. I ,and many of my colleagues, have a deep respect for GM Lim and his students in Daegue. I would never assume to have greater insight than one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. There is no other GM alive that I respect as much as GM Lim. His opinion is one that I respect a great deal.

Dave

Well put Dave, I agree. :asian:

 

[Dave Stratton]

Master D'Aloia or master Miller could you tell me if there is judo like throws in Jungkikwan and if so are they what Choi thaught to GM Lim adn what has he said about them?

The throwing techniques that Doju Nim Choi taught to GM Lim ARE NOT Judo style throws! Hapkido throws are for fighting and are to disable an attacker not to allow them to flip out and fall safe! Hapkido throws can be mistaken to be similar to Judo/Yudo but in reality they are very different!

I hope this answers your question Janne M. :asian:

Take care,

Todd,

The reason I posted anything at all is your statement that judo throws allow an attacker to "fall safe". I believe this to be an inaccurate statement and since I have been cross training in judo for 11 years, I put in my "two cents". I only state what I believe to be true based on my personal experience. My first post was a way of saying "concepts are similiar...can't we all just get along". What I probably should of said was, "I respectfully disagree with YOUR opinion that judo throws allow an attacker to flip out and fall safe." My opinion is based on the fact that I have indeed fallen "unsafely" despite more than 2 decades of martial arts experience. I should have been more clear in my first post.

Dave

 

[masterswife]

Hi Dave: Great posts and you deserve the respect for cross training and your Knowledge. The facts about Grandmaster Mike Wollmershauser an Keith Puglisi are totally accurate. Prior to 1997 only Master Keith and Grandmaster Mike had contact with GM Lim by active members of the AHA. That is the first time that current members on this board travelled to Korea with Master Mike. I know because I was there. It surprises me that sometimes others forget the past so quickly. It was GM Wollmershausr who brought GM Lim to the US and I am sure that in time others would have found him. It sure is hard to have a conversation with someone you did not know until a later date. Oh well,everyone has a right to have a lapse in memory as time passes.

Take care, my best to everyone.

Joannie W.

 

[howard]

Howard

In speaking to Grandmaster Lim during my visit to the JungKiKwan in 1992, he explained to me he held dan rank in several arts, including judo. He stated these facts again on his first visit to the USA in 1996 in GM Mike Wollmershauser's back yard at a picinic in his honor. GM Wollmershauser and Master Keith Puglisi found GM Lim in 1989 in Daegue City Korea. Since that time many hapkido people have benfited from the wealth of knowledge that GM Lim has to share with the world. I ,and many of my colleagues, have a deep respect for GM Lim and his students in Daegue. I would never assume to have greater insight than one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. There is no other GM alive that I respect as much as GM Lim. His opinion is one that I respect a great deal.

Dave

Dave, thanks for the constructive and informative reply. I'm sure you know that I share your deep respect for GM Lim.

In case anybody is wondering, my question contained no hidden agenda. I was merely asking if GM Lim held dan rank in judo, plain and simple. I didn't know, now I do - thanks again, Dave.

 

[howard]

Howard,

Why don't you ask him!! :whip:

Very helpful indeed. Thanks.

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Dave,

I agree I have the upmost respect for GM Lim as well. The only point I have tried to make is that Hapkido & Judo are different technically. I have never thought of Judo as being an inferior Martial Art/Sport.

Howard,

I detect a hint of attitude from your post! My point is that I have asked GM Lim about these issues and know his responses. If you do not believe or trust my comments then go to the person I got them from!

I know you are only a 1st dan but I would think that you would have learned the spirit of respecting your seniors. I mean this in a good but firm spirit and hope you will continue to learn the truth of orthodox Hapkido. :asian:

 

[Pug]

Dave,

Howard,

I know you are only a 1st dan but I would think that you would have learned the spirit of respecting your seniors. I mean this in a good but firm spirit and hope you will continue to learn the truth of orthodox Hapkido.

Interesting comment, this should be practiced not only in words, but in actions.


KPuglisi

 

[masterswife]

Hi everyone: I have not been to this board for sometime and find your posts both intersting and somewhat inaccurate. Not to beat a dead horse but to just state facts I am humbly responding and possibly not too graciously to a post I wil try to act like the lady that I am:

From: Todd Miller: "Master Mike's only promotion from DJN Choi was 1st dan this was after he had already been promoted to 6th dan from Dr. Park."

Inaccurate Todd: I have all of Mike's certificates and records, I would be that oh so slender, sometimes blond, sometimes brunette, that lets say was "Married to Mike for 26 years", so lets put this to bed: Mike was promoted to 3rd dan by Dojunim Choi, yes, 3rd dan, in addition he was also promoted to 6th dan by Grandmaster Jung Hwan Park. He was promoted to 8th dan by Grandmaster Lim, your teacher. So with this all stated, how come you think that Mike's hapkido was in the vein of Ji's and not the founder, when Mike trained with the founder, an I have this on 8mm and translated, that Mike had true hapkido, would you be so inclined not to take what the founder Dojunim Choi said as true. Also, I am not going to be rude to you on a board (I can do that in a private e-mail) but why is it if Mike did not teach true hapkido did your teacher, GM Lim accepted your rank from Mike and promoted you to higher rank, how come if Mike's hapkido was so not true did you not go back to being a white belt when you started training under GM Lim. Wouldn't that have been the "humble" thing to do under true hapkido? That would make you what maybe a 1st or 2nd dan now under Grandmater Lim if you started over again in true hapkido. How humble of you to retain the rank and the knowledge that Mike bestowed upon you. When you tested and were promoted to 1st dan on July 9, 1994 by Mike and to 2nd dan on July 19, 1996 by Mike did you think that when you went to Korea for the 1st time with Mike (remember I went too) that it would be right to start over if Mike's hapkido was so far off base. Mike was a true hapkido practitioner and loved and cherished the art. He was never a student of GM Ji. He always had his students at heart and that is why you had the honor of travelling with him to Korea and studying with GM Lim. I have all the respect in the world for GM Lim an the Jungki Hapkido of Korea. Your teacher also had respect for Mike and who he was and it might be very humble of you to practice like your esteemed teacher. I also want to thank Hal Whalen for responding to these posts.

Take care everyone,
Proudly, the Masters wife
Joannie W.

 

[howard]

...Your teacher also had respect for Mike and who he was...

Ma'am,

I can personally vouch for that.

I sat about 4 feet from GM Lim in his dojang in Daegu one day about 1 1/2 years ago (Feb. 2004) when GM Lim, speaking through an interpreter (who also is a Jungkikwan member), expressed his respect for your late husband, and explained that he was going to visit the US in the summer of that year (2004) to give a series of seminars, hosted, I believe, by the AHA, and that one of his motives in doing so was to pay respect to a fellow martial artist who had departed.

It was actually a very poignant moment. I never had the opportunity to train with Mstr Mike (I met him at a one of GM Lim's seminars in New Jersey in, if memory serves me, 1998, but we only exchanged bows and shook hands). However, it was obvious that GM Lim has considerable respect for him.

And, as most people who know him will probably agree, GM Lim is an eminently respectful man himself. When you are respectful toward others, you tend to be treated with respect in return.

 

[masterswife]

Howard:
Thanks for your post. I want to share something with all of you about how humble and gracious a man Grandmaster Lim is. I shared alot of time and considerable sleepless nites with Mike through the years and more so when he became ill. He was adament that he document and complete as much as he could for the art of hapkido before he passed away. Anyway back to Grandmaster Lim:
Picture this, it is early November 1997, Mike had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He worried about our children and about myself and about hapkido. He also wanted to speak to GM Lim to let him know what he was facing. We called GM Lim and even though there was a language barrier to a point GM Lim was supportive and gracious to Mike he encouraged him and said he would pray for him. He also stated that Mike's inner strength through his martial arts training would see him through this hard time. Mike did perserve and also believed his training gave him the strength to survive. Then in April 1998 Mike's cancer returned. There was little hope that Mike would survive the 2nd operation. Again he callled GM Lim. After speaking to GM Lim for about 20 minutes, Mike hung up with tears in his eyes. He said that GM Lim said if he never saw him again he was thankful to have been his teacher and friend. About ten minutes later the phone rang and I answered it. It was GM Lim. He said "Mrs. Joannie (I always loved this nickname he gave me) may I please speak to Mr. Michael?" I handed the phone to Mike. He spoke to GM Lim for about 2 minutes and hung up. He said GM Lim said he loved him as his student and they would see each other again. I was silent and Mike stood up and said, "Damn, I will miss that man so much when I am gone. Mike was able to see GM Lim 2 more times, here in 1998 and again in Korea in 2002. I will be eternally grateful to GM Lim for his support and love for my husband in his greatest hours of need. A true grandmaster is able to show his support for his students when the time comes and do so in the most humble way. I only share this with all of you because you do not have to be a tough or rude person to be a true grandmaster. We should all take "humble" lessons from Grandmaster Lim.

Best to all, stay well,

Joannie W/

 

[Master Todd Miller]

In deferance to a Man that is no longer with us I will not keep hashing these issues over and over! I will make one last comment: Everything I have posted is the truth.

I hold no malice toward the AHA or the late Mike wollmershauser/his family.

As GM Lim would say more training. :asian:

 

[shesulsa]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-G Ketchmark / shesulsa
-Sr. MT Moderator-

 

[guitarac311]

It is somewhat accurate to say it is blended with aikido, but actually, aikido was sprung off of hapkido if i remember correctly from my reading. The founder of aikido was a student of the founder of hapkido.

Either way, you are answering the question though.

 

[Kumbajah]

No - No - No. There is no Aikido in Hapkido. The common thread is Aikijuitsu. Hapkido is not a blend.

 

[arnisador]

It is somewhat accurate to say it is blended with aikido, but actually, aikido was sprung off of hapkido if i remember correctly from my reading. The founder of aikido was a student of the founder of hapkido.

I don't believe that this is correct. Both arts come principally from jujutsu, but one did not come from the other.

 

[guitarac311]

ah woops, double checked. it was the head of Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu who was the master of Morihei Ueshiba who founded aikido.

 

[SAVAGE]

Hap kido is based on Daito Ryu Aiki-Ju Jitsu. The same parent as aikido...the kicks in the west are like TKD...but the combat style I learnt has kicks only to the lower part of the body...I was taught by this man:

http://www.wka.org/Dong%20Yong%20Do.htm

The throws are based on Yudo...a korean form of Judo...to say hapkido is like one art or another is flawed...it is hapkido sure it shares similarities but there are similarities to be found with almost all MA...​

 

[matt.m]

Hapkido is not a blend art. It is an art that stands fully on its own. In all honesty, there are no real gaps in hapkido cirriculum. Kicking aspect is not like Tae Kwon Do. Nope, the only real similiarity is that they are korean arts. Out of fairness the kicks chamber the same way otherwise they can't be considered the same kick upon execution.

Any similiarities between aikido and hapkido are because Choi and Ueshiba both trained un Takeda. Choi is the founder of Hapkido and Ueshiba is the founder of Aikido. I saw on an Aikido link that Choi was giving a seminar once, Ueshiba was in attendance. It was noted that Ueshiba publicly regarded Choi as his friend.

As far as similiarities to judo in the aspects of throwing. Well, it is all about the off balancing or redirection of the opponent or Uke. Sorry that is about it as well.

Out of fairness, hapkidos wrist throws require the same pulling aspect of throws in the same manner as pulling on a judo dobok.

I give this based on the opinion of working my way to brown in Judo 2 times. I am also currently studying hapkido.

Just my 2 cents.