Integration of different arts

Flatlander

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For those of you who have trained in multiple arts: Do you feel that you have successfully been able to integrate them? What particular challenges did you face? What symmetries did you find there, if any?

Did you find that the first art in which you trained remained as a platform, and subsequent arts became "enhancements" of your style within the context of your primary art, or was it a complete evolution?

Thank you for your attention.
 

vincehardy3

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I have studied the following systems: Wing Chun, Yiliquan (Xingyiquan, Baguaquan, Taiqiquan), Taekwondo, and Shotokan. For the most part my background is mostly in kung-fu. I would say that some of what I learned in my Wing Chun days has bled over into my "internal" martial training. The one thing that I had to relearn is how to punch correctly.


Wing Chun's punch isolates the shoulder muscles, and very little "body action" was put behind the punch. I am only speaking about the training that I received. Under the tutelage of my present instructor I learned how to correctly align my body, rotate the hips, etc. so that I can get maximum power behind my punch. But, Wing Chun's centerline theory & 4-Gates is prevelent (sp) in the internal arts as well. So, that helped me during my present studies.

My Wing Chun training helped me when when it came down to seeing kata/form interpretation when it dealt (sp) with close-quarters fighting. I would suspect that my training in the internal arts will have the same effect that Wing Chun had.

My instructor (Sifu Pete Starr) would be a good person to talk to about blending different systems. He did it with the present system that I study, and it is awesome. But, I believe anyone would say that about their system of study.


Vince
 

Han-Mi

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I have trained in Chung Do Kwan Tae Kwon Do for 13 years. My instructor has incorporated techniques and philosiphies from many other styles in those 13 years. I have nominal training in many arts, and I am a better MArtist because of it.I consider it Suplimental training.

No matter how good you are at 1 art, you can't be a great martial artist without letting in knowledge from all aspects of MAs.
 

MJS

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flatlander said:
For those of you who have trained in multiple arts: Do you feel that you have successfully been able to integrate them?

Yes. They all blended together very well!

What particular challenges did you face?

The only challenges that I faced, were the negative comments of crosstraining that I got. Just because someone else didnt like the idea, they thought that nobody else should do it.


Did you find that the first art in which you trained remained as a platform, and subsequent arts became "enhancements" of your style within the context of your primary art, or was it a complete evolution?

My base art was and always will be Kenpo. I crosstrained in Arnis, BJJ, and Krav Maga. I'd have to say that they all enhanced each other. For example: If I took a Kenpo tech. I could add or remove to it. I could add the locking from the Arnis, the standing grappling/controlling from the BJJ, or change part of the tech, and throw in the KM.

Regardless of if they made the Kenpo better, the fact remains that they all can stand alone as a seperate art. The Arnis gave me a better understanding of weapons, the BJJ an understanding of the ground, and the KM another option to quickly end a situation.

Mike
 

OULobo

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I train and practice my arts completly separate as a preferance. I choose that way out of respect for my instructors and the arts. I personally prefer, at the level of refined practice, to keep up the ethnic integrity and individuality of an art. If I am doing free style or sparring, or am in an actual fight I will try to blend the arts, but even then I find my self shifting into different modes for each style. The only time I really blend the arts is in my head and if I am doing a general self-defense seminar.
 

7starmantis

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I've trained primarily in CMA but a couple of different "styles" within CMA. They all complimented each other very well. I don't normally consider my training in Wah Lum as different from my training in Seven Star, but in actuality they are different systems but very similar in fighting principles. I enjoy learning from other systems; I just personally wouldn't cross train in say a hard karate system as I would be forced to choose between their principles when fighting, and I would rather that all my principles be directly in line with each other. I really haven't faced many challenges in cross training if you call it that, except that maybe my JKD made me use some different footwork and punches than most of my kung fu, but thats good, I've got both now.


7sm
 

OULobo

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7starmantis said:
I've trained primarily in CMA but a couple of different "styles" within CMA. They all complimented each other very well. I don't normally consider my training in Wah Lum as different from my training in Seven Star, but in actuality they are different systems but very similar in fighting principles. I enjoy learning from other systems; I just personally wouldn't cross train in say a hard karate system as I would be forced to choose between their principles when fighting, and I would rather that all my principles be directly in line with each other. I really haven't faced many challenges in cross training if you call it that, except that maybe my JKD made me use some different footwork and punches than most of my kung fu, but thats good, I've got both now.


7sm

I definitly see the issue of styles competing in certain levels of training, but cross-training in arts that specialize in different areas is a great way to add to your cadre of abilites. Like personally I train FMA for melee weapons, BJJ for ground, Silat for dirty tricks and fun, Muay Thai for fitness and striking even Aikido for mentality and throws. Sure in a pinch Silat and FMAs have loose grappling techniques, Muay Thai has throws, ect., but that's just gravy, not the meat and potatoes.

Just admit it your a CMA fanatic. :uhyeah:

Now that I think of it, there are so many CMA styles and variations that you could probly find well specialized systems without ever leaving China.
 
F

FasterthanDeath

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It wasnt hard, it was very easy and it did enhance everything I had learned. My base system was Wing chun, but I went from being a fast and complete puncher to a fast and complete kicker and from their to a fast and complete grappler. I studied BJJ, Judo, Hsing-I, Pa Kua, JKD. It just made me a better MA all around. I believe everyone should do it with at least one art just to see in your own practice, how many weaknesses and flaws you have. Its a great tool on improving your technique and effectiveness.
 

7starmantis

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OULobo said:
Just admit it your a CMA fanatic. :uhyeah:
Busted!! :rofl: What can I say?

I do however enjoy fighting with others from differing systems as it helps me see differences. Its hard sometimes allways fighting someone who moves and knows exactly what you do.

7sm
 

Trent

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After years of intense practice (a decade or two), I think that your core art will evolve with other arts you have practice, and under stress or fully resistant sparring is almost unavoidable.

By the bye, some silat has a myriad of grappling movements and groundwork.
 

jeffbeish

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Combining different Martial Arts is nothing new and when the U.S. Air Force began sending airmen to Japan to train at the Kodokan we received instruction form various disciplines. We had classes in shotokan and other forms of karate, Aikido, jujitsu, Judo and so on, so the airmen received a brief but well-rounded introduction to the Martial Arts. While stationed on Okinawa several of us became interested in karate but continued Judo training and worried at first that they would interfere. My first karate sensei was a founder of a particular school, Nagamine sensei, who welcomed Americans into his dojo. He was a strict disciplinarian and quite accomplished, and allowed us to train at the regular fee he charged everyone else. Back in my days this was very little.

After learning the various kata and other forms of his methods I was awarded shodan. While attending the classes at the Kodokan it was easier for me to accept the karate training they offered in the course, but it seemed to me at the time the two arts, Judo and karate, were starting to interfere with each other. I had to devote more time to one or the other or just resign to the fact I would end up mediocre in each.

Then one of the Judo sensei at the Naha Police Dojo invited me up to his karate dojo and for a few months I trained with him in Goju-ryu. This art proved very strenuous but sensei at least godan (5th) Judo and hachidan (8th) Goju-ryu, so understood well the differences and how to train in both. I quickly became proficient in that school, but was less effective in the sport aspect of Judo; however, my techniques in kata and randori was much more advanced than my rank at the time required. I would never quite realize the past successes in Judo competition again because my Air Force jobs and civilian jobs interfered with my training so he limited tournament for me was not so great after returning to the States. A friend got me involved in kajukenbo that instructed some Judo techniques and I seemd to fit in well there. So, it seemed that we must decide on what we want from training in Martial Arts sport or recreational enjoyment.
 

kenpo tiger

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MJS said:
The only challenges that I faced, were the negative comments of crosstraining that I got. Just because someone else didn't like the idea, they thought that nobody else should do it.


Sounds like my first school. We were discouraged from reading anything or even watching ma movies - had to fit the mold, so to speak.

Once I left there - what a difference. I spoke with many MA instructors, including two woman senseis, before choosing a new art - tkd, as it happened. My tkd sabonim encouraged our ma knowledge by having guest instructors from other arts - aikido, bjj, shotokan. That encouragement to experiment and question is what led to my finding kenpo.

A friend took me to a kung fu instructor- a black belt, but he never divulged his actual rank in the year or so I cross-trained there - to train in bag work. (btw - who knew it was so difficult to get used to the speed bag??!!) He, and another instructor [who is a former Marine], were extremely supportive of women martial artists and built in tkd drills as part of the cardio portion of the class.

What do I use? EVERYTHING. Despite the negative experiences I had, I learned something from each and every instructor I trained with.

You keep the good and throw away the bad.:asian:
 
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