How to improve in Kata ?

[Hyoho]

I just learned recently (Like 3 months ago) what bunkai was. We don't practice this at our school. I don't evn know if there is a Korean word equivalent to 'Bunkai.' Although I do think it would be effective to practice the techniques in the forms as independent fighting techniques and not just as choreographed movements.

Sadly a lot of the original concept gets lost. Some years ago a Japanese top ZNKR delegation went to Korea to do a seminar. On the first day they taught fundamentals. Second day no students turned up as they did not want to do basics. Fundamentals are the key to the safe where all those secrets are supposedly locked away. The key to the china cabinet where we can see all the good stuff but can't touch it. The secret lies in being able to do those fundamentals. And as somebody else thought them up it maybe will be hard.

 

[Azulx]

IMO you can't help but bring your own "flavor" as people have called it. Everyone has different strengths and abilities. Try as I may, I'll never perform a kata exactly as my teacher(s) does. Try as he may (although it would be downgrading him ), he'll never perform a kata exactly as I do.

Your own strengths and weaknesses show in everything you do. It's all about decreasing weaknesses and further developing strengths. Don't try to revolutionize the way the kata is performed.

This is true, different body compositions, will result in movement looking different. When I think of flavor, I think of using different chambers to execute moves and exaggerating techniques. There is not much of that in our school.

 

[Azulx]

Sadly a lot of the original concept gets lost. Some years ago a Japanese top ZNKR delegation went to Korea to do a seminar. On the first day they taught fundamentals. Second day no students turned up as they did not want to do basics. Fundamentals are the key to the safe where all those secrets are supposedly locked away. The key to the china cabinet where we can see all the good stuff but can't touch it. The secret lies in being able to do those fundamentals. And as somebody else thought them up it maybe will be hard.

My instructor is big on going back to the basic blocks and stances. We will spend 15-20 minutes every class going over front stances and back stance, and our 6 basic blocks.

 

[Hyoho]

My instructor is big on going back to the basic blocks and stances. We will spend 15-20 minutes every class going over front stances and back stance, and our 6 basic blocks.

I did one waza for nearly seven years.

 

[donald1]

Whenever I ask my instructor questions involving kata usually his response is practice. All though occasionally I get specific answers. In such a case id say listen carefully and pay close attention to detail when the instructor does the form.(there are some things he/she might demonstrate but not say) Sorry cant think of anything else; best of luck!

 

[Hyoho]

Whenever I ask my instructor questions involving kata usually his response is practice. All though occasionally I get specific answers. In such a case id say listen carefully and pay close attention to detail when the instructor does the form.(there are some things he/she might demonstrate but not say) Sorry cant think of anything else; best of luck!

Many years ago they had not adopted the method of Western style teaching. Talk to old teachers and they will tell you they just watched and learned by example. One major difference I do find in Japan with a high level group is get it wrong twice and God help you.

 

[WaterGal]

1. Student manual only has the word description, instructor manual has both picture and text.

Depending on how common/popular your forms are, there may be books or videos available on Amazon or other sites that will show them.

When teaching him the form I noticed how he would struggle to do a simple front stance,and he had trouble transitioning from stance to stance. So I didn't let him go past a certain set of moves, because the stances were so poor. My instructor prefers me to teach all of the form so the student is aware of the moves, and he can "perfect" the stances later. I didn't know if it was better to go through the whole thing and work on everything later, or not let him advance until he has done the first few moves at a decent standard?

I think those are both valid methods of teaching, as long as "work on everything later" actually happens. I do think kids will get impatient with your method, for whatever that's worth, but adults may appreciate it.

 

[Azulx]

I think those are both valid methods of teaching, as long as "work on everything later" actually happens. I do think kids will get impatient with your method, for whatever that's worth, but adults may appreciate it.

To clarify, the youngest person in our class is 18 and oldest 28

 

[Azulx]

Depending on how common/popular your forms are, there may be books or videos available on Amazon or other sites that will show them.

We use the Cha'ng Hon Forms, so there is plenty of material on them online.

 

[jks9199]

When teaching him the form I noticed how he would struggle to do a simple front stance,and he had trouble transitioning from stance to stance. So I didn't let him go past a certain set of moves, because the stances were so poor. My instructor prefers me to teach all of the form so the student is aware of the moves, and he can "perfect" the stances later. I didn't know if it was better to go through the whole thing and work on everything later, or not let him advance until he has done the first few moves at a decent standard?

Both approaches are valid. Generally, I use some of each. I'll teach a new form to a student in sets -- usually no more than a couple at a time. I let them get those sets down tolerably well before I add more... Tolerably well isn't perfect, but it's having a reliable idea what they're doing, and where they're going with it. Transitions should be confident and balanced, though maybe not perfect, if that makes sense. As you describe this student -- I'd probably not beyond the first few sets until they're doing the basic stances right.

It also depends on the length of the form... A form with 16 or 20 moves, I can teach that in a single class. But a form with 70 or 80 moves? No way.

I'll also often teach drills that lead to a form when I string them together. So, we might drill a forward step, block and punch. And then I'll show the form that I lifted the sequence from...

 

[WaterGal]

We use the Cha'ng Hon Forms, so there is plenty of material on them online.

Then I'd encourage you to look at some of that material for ways to improve your forms and your teaching of forms. I originally studied KKW TKD from a Korean guy who would teach by just demonstrating the material and expecting you to copy him. He knew his stuff, but was not always the best at passing the knowledge along. I've found the KKW's poomsae study resources to be quite helpful in improving my understanding of the forms and my ability to teach them to others.

 

[Azulx]

Then I'd encourage you to look at some of that material for ways to improve your forms and your teaching of forms. I originally studied KKW TKD from a Korean guy who would teach by just demonstrating the material and expecting you to copy him. He knew his stuff, but was not always the best at passing the knowledge along. I've found the KKW's poomsae study resources to be quite helpful in improving my understanding of the forms and my ability to teach them to others.

Believe me I have, I own books on the forms, and have seen many videos to aid in practice. My issue was formulating a strategy to teach struggling students effectively. Especially those students struggling transitioning from stance to stance. This is due to the fact, that I am aware that my training methods may not be a successful system for everyone. I know what works for me, and that may not work for my classmates.

I have been able to work with the student struggling again. Instead of not letting him advance until he did the form to high standard, I let him continue. In the end he was more receptive and less frustrated. I am beginning to see what methods I can use to help him be the best hyung practitioner he can be.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Believe me I have, I own books on the forms, and have seen many videos to aid in practice. My issue was formulating a strategy to teach struggling students effectively. Especially those students struggling transitioning from stance to stance. This is due to the fact, that I am aware that my training methods may not be a successful system for everyone. I know what works for me, and that may not work for my classmates.

I have been able to work with the student struggling again. Instead of not letting him advance until he did the form to high standard, I let him continue. In the end he was more receptive and less frustrated. I am beginning to see what methods I can use to help him be the best hyung practitioner he can be.

If my student was struggling with stance transitions, I'd devote a part of class to that and work on it separately from poomsae.

 

[MI_martialist]

Are there any ways to improve doing Kata, besides doing it over and over again?

Simply train the actual applications for each movement, and each potential application between the poses and postures. Understand the fighting and combat applications is the way they should be done before doing them solo.

 

[WaterGal]

Believe me I have, I own books on the forms, and have seen many videos to aid in practice. My issue was formulating a strategy to teach struggling students effectively. Especially those students struggling transitioning from stance to stance. This is due to the fact, that I am aware that my training methods may not be a successful system for everyone. I know what works for me, and that may not work for my classmates.

I have been able to work with the student struggling again. Instead of not letting him advance until he did the form to high standard, I let him continue. In the end he was more receptive and less frustrated. I am beginning to see what methods I can use to help him be the best hyung practitioner he can be.

Sounds good!

Teaching something is really a very different skill from just knowing something. Like you say, what works for you may not work for another person. And a student may struggle with a thing you just "got" immediately and don't think to explain, or vice versa. So I think you have to really understand and pick apart the form or technique in your mind, and figure out multiple different ways to show or explain the same thing.

It sounds like you're working to improve your teaching skills, which is great. Be patient with yourself and just keep working on it.

 

[jks9199]

Why are they struggling with the stance shifts? Do they really understand the stance in the first place? Is their weight properly distributed? Are they stepping too deep or too short when they assume the stance in the first place? If their weight is in the wrong place, they'll never be able to shift their stance. So work on shifting in stance first.

Once you figure that out -- go back to the form, and see if they can't shift between stances better.

 

[Balrog]

I've been to schools where asking a 1st geup to do the form they learned at 7th geup was met with a blank stare. They had forgotten the form, because they no longer practiced it. This is antithetical to the entire concept of systematic learning.

THIS! Very well stated.

Your lower ranked forms are the foundation to your current form. You should continue to practice them, and use them to help improve your current form. For example, when you go back and do the White Belt form, you know it. You don't have to stop and think what the next move is. As a result, you can concentrate on correct execution of technique, focus, balance, timing, etc., etc. This is why I grind my students on low rank material. We have a review class on Saturday morning that starts at White Belt and goes up to the highest rank on the floor, which is usually me and/or SWMBO. We make demonstration of low rank material a part of our testings.

And FWIW, IMNSHO and all that....your style has a curriculum. If you're a Black Belt, you're supposed to have a certain level of expertise. If you can't do the low rank forms, then you really can't call yourself an expert, can you?