How to defeat someone using soft force

mook jong man

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I've done chi sau sparring drunk and its not to be recommended unless you don't like looking in the mirror and seeing a full set of teeth when you smile.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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So if your sparring someone who does a soft style whats your best course of action to defeat him/her???

Whats the best way to counter someone using soft force?Every technique and skill has a counter? So what have you found?


soft force is yielding and leading skill.

the 'winner' is the one who can get his opponent to overcommit, and in turn, receive that pressure and somehow alter it's vector/direction to the detriment of the attacker. chisao, palm changes, bridging, tui shou, etc. all depend on some type of rotational re-alignment of the opponent's force. you get him to overextend by some 'trick' of repositioning. there are various lateral drags that are applied, but generally there is always some torque involved at the point of contact. a door hinge is a favorite analogy for the body movement. the 'concealed' part is basic reference not only to the postural setup but the timing as well.

this 'soft v.s. soft' scenario would only last a split second and comes down to who can slip whose bridge. somebody decent might yield out once or twice more, but within a second or so, one or the other gets hit or thrown.

it's just a quick game of cat and mouse.

regards.
 

K-man

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There seems to be a bit of confusion in terminology. Soft does not equal weak and yielding is not passive. If you get hit by somebody who practices a soft style, it hurts just as much. Both have their place. Preferably you learn how to use both within your chosen style. :asian:
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well soft techniques deal with re-direction and neutralizing force along with other techniques. My question is how do you counter soft techniques any of them?


There seems to be a bit of confusion in terminology. Soft does not equal weak and yielding is not passive. If you get hit by somebody who practices a soft style, it hurts just as much. Both have their place. Preferably you learn how to use both within your chosen style. :asian:
 

redantstyle

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k-man,

he is referring to time/distance, and bridge controls. more of the entering aspect, as opposed to any strike/fajing.

Yoshiyahu,

you've got two options:

1) straight blast
2) counter technique


the first option is simply not to play the game. dont reach out. make sure not to engage with reaching attempts on his part. instead, control distance, and strike directly to his core. rinse. repeat.

the second option, to counter, is not really available to you. i say this because you have both practical, and tactical issues.

in your OP, you noted a smaller opponent using 'soft force'. this could be interpreted alot of ways, but i figured i know what you mean by context.

smaller opponents have a natural advantage in chi sao, tui shi, etc. because such skills are based on pressure sensitivity. because you have more mass, you tend to 'overbear' and this is read easily by the smaller fighter. in many cases, you will actually 'displace' the smaller opponent, and he can easily ride your momentum to slip away from relatively conservative advances.

the tactical problem is that you are asking the problem from the wrong end when it comes to 'defeating' soft force. it is the epitome of deception. false targets are presented, distance is manipulated, and angulation is used to advantage. it's 'bait and switch'. they get you to commit, and then pull the rug out from underneath you.

if you want to play this game you have to learn it, one step at a time.

doubtless counters exist within the framework of the system you are training in. and they are usually all part of the basic patterns. once identified, you can use x to counter y.

regards.
 

Xue Sheng

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Well soft techniques deal with re-direction and neutralizing force along with other techniques. My question is how do you counter soft techniques any of them?

One of those other techniques is the use of fajing which can and will hit you very hard. Another one of those other techniques is Qinna which will hurt you. Soft styles like Taiji = Patience, assuming I understand what you are talking about when you say soft

Redirect, neutralize, follow are all parts of it but do not focus on only the terminology because within that you will find fajing, qinna and a few other hidden nasties.

But again I am back to my original question as to how you define "soft"
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Well lets get away from the word soft...because we may see it as different. I see soft as someone using their opponents force against them and not using phyiscal strength to overcome power.

But forget about it.

Lets focus on what would be best stratgem for a Wing Chun guy to defeat a Tai Chi Fighter?

Please share your opinion?


One of those other techniques is the use of fajing which can and will hit you very hard. Another one of those other techniques is Qinna which will hurt you. Soft styles like Taiji = Patience, assuming I understand what you are talking about when you say soft

Redirect, neutralize, follow are all parts of it but do not focus on only the terminology because within that you will find fajing, qinna and a few other hidden nasties.

But again I am back to my original question as to how you define "soft"
 

Xue Sheng

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Well lets get away from the word soft...because we may see it as different. I see soft as someone using their opponents force against them and not using phyiscal strength to overcome power.

But forget about it.

Lets focus on what would be best stratgem for a Wing Chun guy to defeat a Tai Chi Fighter?

Please share your opinion?

Train and trust in Wing Chun that is all.

And as previously stated somewhere in this post, the chances of coming up against a Taiji person these days that actually knows how to fight with it are slim and those that do are not like to attack anyone so unless a wing chun person is looking to go out and find a Taiji person trained in MA and attack them you are likely never going to come up against this.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Thank you for that information?

lol ha ha...


Train and trust in Wing Chun that is all.

And as previously stated somewhere in this post, the chances of coming up against a Taiji person these days that actually knows how to fight with it are slim and those that do are not like to attack anyone so unless a wing chun person is looking to go out and find a Taiji person trained in MA and attack them you are likely never going to come up against this.
 
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Yoshiyahu

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Wing Chun is a good system...But so is Bak Mei so is White Crane...so Is eagle claw...so is choy li fut...so is Tiger and Crane...so is boxing...so is karate...they are all great systems...but the one with the most skills wins the fight...if they are equal in skill then the one who is strongest wins. If they are equally strong and skilled then the fastest will win.




Nope. Wing chun beats all systems. End of discussion. Lol
 

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