A: My spear can penetrate all shields on earth.Where's the paradox?
B: My shield can stop all spears on earth.
What will happen when A's spear meets B's shield?
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A: My spear can penetrate all shields on earth.Where's the paradox?
I just didn't see a paradox in it.I think he may be referring to the dynamic of a WC cat knows how to fight another WC cat very well BUT how well does the WC cat know how to fight an Aikido, or really any other breed of cat?
Ah. That's a different scenario. Of course, no MA has either the impenetrable defense nor the irresistible offense.A: My spear can penetrate all shields on earth.
B: My shield can stop all spears on earth.
What will happen when A's spear meets B's shield?
APL76 said:I just didn't see a paradox in it.
if you encounter someone who really knows how to deploy wing chun to its fullest extent combining the handling of force with sticky hands and sticky legs you can hardly even stand up much less fight back, they will take control of your balance, if they want you to cross your legs you will, or you will simply go over.
That is the reality. CMA systems are not the only ones to make hyperbolic claims, and none of those claims has yet been substantiated for any system.APL76 said:
Before I cross trained the
- preying mantis system, I was told that after I had trained it, my hands could move so fast that my opponent won't be able to see it.
- Baji system, I was told that after I had trained it, my punch could be so strong that I can punch a hole through my opponent's chest.
- Zimen system, I was told that after I had trained it, my finger tip could be so strong that whenever I touch my opponent's pressure point, my opponent could drop to death.
- Taiji system, I was told that after I had trained it, nobody can even land a drop of water on my body.
- XingYi system, I was told that after I had trained it, the moment that I punch, the moment that my opponent's body will fly into the sky.
- ...
After I have spent so many years in my cross training systems, my faith was not the same any more. In MA. everything is relative and not absolute. Nobody can say, "When I touch you, you will be dead." It all depends on how "bad" that your opponent's MA training can be.
Depending on the situation..."If" I am going to continue the engagement I cut him off. I don't circle with him.Your opponent steps to your right side, you turn to your right and "change direction". He steps to your right side again, you change your direction again. If you keep doing that, your opponent may walk in a complete circle and you may have to turn 360 degree.
When will you stop "change direction" if your opponent keeps stepping to your right?
APL76 said:
Before I cross trained the
- preying mantis system, I was told that after I had trained it, my hands could move so fast that my opponent won't be able to see it.
- Baji system, I was told that after I had trained it, my punch could be so strong that I can punch a hole through my opponent's chest.
- Zimen system, I was told that after I had trained it, my finger tip could be so strong that whenever I touch my opponent's pressure point, my opponent could drop to death.
- Taiji system, I was told that after I had trained it, nobody can even land a drop of water on my body.
- XingYi system, I was told that after I had trained it, the moment that I punch, the moment that my opponent's body will fly into the sky.
- ...
After I have spent so many years in my cross training systems, my faith was not the same any more. In MA. everything is relative and not absolute. Nobody can say, "When I touch you, you will be dead." It all depends on how "bad" that your opponent's MA training can be.
APL76 said:
Before I cross trained the
- preying mantis system, I was told that after I had trained it, my hands could move so fast that my opponent won't be able to see it.
- Baji system, I was told that after I had trained it, my punch could be so strong that I can punch a hole through my opponent's chest.
- Zimen system, I was told that after I had trained it, my finger tip could be so strong that whenever I touch my opponent's pressure point, my opponent could drop to death.
- Taiji system, I was told that after I had trained it, nobody can even land a drop of water on my body.
- XingYi system, I was told that after I had trained it, the moment that I punch, the moment that my opponent's body will fly into the sky.
- ...
After I have spent so many years in my cross training systems, my faith was not the same any more. In MA. everything is relative and not absolute. Nobody can say, "When I touch you, you will be dead." It all depends on how "bad" that your opponent's MA training can be.
This is true. A direct line of attack will require more aggressive footwork when your opponent retreats. I know some white eyebrow system spends the 1st 6 months on nothing but footwork training. IMO, WC should start the footwork training during day one.wing chun took a more direct line of attack than the other martial art.
This is true. A direct line of attack will require more aggressive footwork when your opponent retreats. I know some white eyebrow system spends the 1st 6 months on nothing but footwork training. IMO, WC should start the footwork training during day one.
From my perspective you have too many knives to sharpen to be able to keep any really sharp; pick the one you like best and keep it like a razor.
It's easy to say that when you fight aFrom my perspective you have too many knives to sharpen to be able to keep any really sharp; pick the one you like best and keep it like a razor.
In the following southern CMA Bai Mei system form, you can see the "front foot step forward, back foot slide forward" forward has been used over and over. One Bai Mei teacher told me that his students have to spend the first 6 month only on this footwork.We do start the footwork training from day one, by building a solid foundation to support it, the Yi Ji Kim Yeung Ma.
I finally find a clip that shows how to train only move the body without moving the arms. This is the opposite of the WC approach that only move the arms without moving the body. It's easy to see that, if you have your "body method" fully developed, to add in your arms is very simple and easy.From my perspective you have too many knives to sharpen to be able to keep any really sharp; pick the one you like best and keep it like a razor.
There are a number of things to take into consideration.
Firstly, I'm not saying that if anyone who is good at wing chun takes on anyone else the wing chun guy will win. And I'm not assuming that any other martial art can be broken down by wing chun all the time, or that any other martial art cant break down wing chun. So if you are getting the impression I am saying that wing chun will work hands down every time, then sorry if I gave that impression but that's not what I was getting at.
In relation to your "paradox" above, which I don't really see as a paradox at all either, who has trained harder? who has stronger foundations? who can move faster, has better sensitivity? who can hit harder? Who just happens to be on their game that day and who is perhaps having an off day? all of these things will come into play.
When you have two people who are extremely good martial artists I think the difference between who wins and who loses changes in nature.
For most people at an average to slightly above average level of training I think the things that will determine the outcome will be things like: Training, foundations, who is capable of being more aggressive.
Two people with well above average training: refinement of technique, the smaller details will come into it, who can keep everything together properly; which are really still a function of training.
two people who are really at the top of their style, when all other human elements are about equal, I think its only then that the details within the actual system will really come into play. For example, my sigung Sum Nung once fought a guy, sigung beat him but it was the closest he ever came to losing a fight, and it was the toughest fight he ever had. He said the only reason he won is because wing chun took a more direct line of attack than the other martial art. He and the other guy were so closely matched that the deciding factor was the art itself. For most of us I think training has more to do with it.
----------------------------------------------True for many wc but not mineIn the following southern CMA Bai Mei system form, you can see the "front foot step forward, back foot slide forward" forward has been used over and over. One Bai Mei teacher told me that his students have to spend the first 6 month only on this footwork.
IMO, WC system does not emphasize "footwork" early enough.
I learned this principle from an instructor who was likely to be better at either than an opponent (Golden Gloves boxer, held rank in Shotokan, Judo, and NGA). Even with that likely advantage, he taught us ,"If he want's to box, I'll grapple. If he wants to grapple, I'll box."It's easy to say that when you fight a
- striker, you force him to play the grappling game.
- grappler, you force him to play the striking game.
that might be the case if wing chun's only weapon were a hammer; it isn't, it should be wholisticOn the other hand, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
“You should not have a favourite weapon. To become over-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault as not knowing it sufficiently well.”
Miyamoto Mushashi
I think you miss something with your sigung's experience. Namely the experience. I am not the most advanced student in my school but I often beat more advanced students in sparring. Why? Because I have, perhaps regrettably, led a life that has had as a job requirement fighting others for over 25 years (I was a soldier, now a LEO). That gives me perhaps an ability for aggression others lack but it also gives me something only experience can provide in terms of reading another combatant, lack of hesitation etc. It's never about the system. There is no special sauce. It's about how well you are trained and how well, and often, you have put the training into real practice. Your sigung has clearly done the later.
I finally find a clip that shows how to train only move the body without moving the arms. This is the opposite of the WC approach that only move the arms without moving the body. It's easy to see that, if you have your "body method" fully developed, to add in your arms is very simple and easy.
Without "cross training", you won't be able to compare different training methods.
This boy also trains "body method" without using the arms.