How different?

[Toasty]

How different/similar is the Kenpo that was taught by Mr. Chow from/to American Kenpo in the 1960's?

How different/similar is what was originally taught to the guys who received the first black belts from Mr. Chow from/to what is now known as Kara-Ho Kempo?

Are there more similarities or differences between American Kenpo & Kara-Ho Kempo?

Thanks
Rob

p.s. does SGM stand for senior grand master? If so, isnt that kinda like "very unique"? LOL :wink2:

 

[LexTalinis]

Chow's Kara-Ho Kempo Karate has changed a lot from when he taught. Akido has been incorperated so many theories on Ki have been added and thus consequently given the whole system a face lift. Personally, I don't think that is a bad thing, if an art does not evolve and does not adapt to the times then it becomes ineffective. You can visibly see the Akido in play when Techinques such as Knife defenses are employed. But in keeping with a solid base, everything is geared towards keeping the Kara-Ho Kempo effective without losing what makes it Kempo.

Ed Parker took Kenpo Karate (as it was called then) and blended it with a type of Kung Fu (name of which eludes me at the moment). But once again, it did not resmble much of what Chow taught either, but that is how things go when they evolve and progress. Chow's method was the base, the foundation.

Now Kara-Ho and American Kenpo are like comparing apples and oranges. While many of the technical moves, such as kicking, hand strikes and stancing are similar, the theories that motivate each art is totally differant. American Kenpo blende a Kung Fu where Kara-Ho blended Akido, but not nearly as much Akido was adapted as Kung Fu was. Kara-Ho has been critised for being "unessisarily brutal" many times, and this is one aspect that sets Kara-Ho apart form American Kenpo even more. Chow was a ruthless fighter who would devistate his opponents. When he finished a technique, the opponent could not get up, even if they were awake and wanted to. Kill moves are taught in most Kara-Ho techniques. This is Chow's philosophy of "if they wish to do me harm, I will ensure that they can not get up and finish the job. I will make sure that it will take a month or two before they can even think of doing it again, and if worse comes to worse, I will ensure that they never can do it again." It is in my experiance in training in American Kenpo that this mentality did not carry over to the instructors of today, weather or not Ed Parker had the same mind set I cannot know, for I never knew him personally. But I can say that the Techniques do not have the same level of "brutality". One could argue either way, is that good or bad, but that is not the point. The point is, they are two very differant trees, that share a common root.

Another interesting point; ever since Chow got mad at Parker and disaccosiated himself Kara-Ho has done a lot to not be confused as the same art or style.

I have enjoyed my studies in both systems, Kara-Ho is something you could never use on a drunk uncle who has gotten beligerant at a family party, not unless you don't mind putting him in the hospital. American Kenpo alows for such a more mild application. They both have strong points, and both have weak points. All in all it just depends on the kenpoka him self, what is he looking for in an art, and what is he willing to put into it...

And yes, SGM stands for Senior Grandmaster.

 

[Toasty]

Wow, that was great. Thanks so much for your reply.

That info was very helpful & very informative.


see ya
Be well
Rob

 

[gmkuoha]

Now Kara-Ho and American Kenpo are like comparing apples and oranges. While many of the technical moves, such as kicking, hand strikes and stancing are similar, the theories that motivate each art is totally differant. American Kenpo blende a Kung Fu where Kara-Ho blended Akido, but not nearly as much Akido was adapted as Kung Fu was. Kara-Ho has been critised for being "unessisarily brutal" many times, and this is one aspect that sets Kara-Ho apart form American Kenpo even more. Chow was a ruthless fighter who would devistate his opponents. When he finished a technique, the opponent could not get up, even if they were awake and wanted to. Kill moves are taught in most Kara-Ho techniques. This is Chow's philosophy of "if they wish to do me harm, I will ensure that they can not get up and finish the job. I will make sure that it will take a month or two before they can even think of doing it again, and if worse comes to worse, I will ensure that they never can do it again." It is in my experiance in training in American Kenpo that this mentality did not carry over to the instructors of today, weather or not Ed Parker had the same mind set I cannot know, for I never knew him personally. But I can say that the Techniques do not have the same level of "brutality". One could argue either way, is that good or bad, but that is not the point. The point is, they are two very differant trees, that share a common root.

** Contents of the answers given by Lex is very good though I do not belive it is totally accurate. Yes, I do believe that many people think Kara-Ho is a brutal art...but I like to think of it as a survival art., no games..just action. Maybe this is why some of the top military people such as Sensei Al Parker (former Sgt/Maj in the Marine Recons happens to be one of our instructors and also Col. Paul Pond, head of the Marine...Miramar station and former assistant to the Joint Chief of Staff from Washington also a student and numerous law enforcement personal are members of our system. I do believe that this system was developed exactly the way Professor Chow intended it to be. But we teach passive nature first and foremost and that is our belief, then and now and it will never change. The many times I have had to use my art while growing up in Hawaii and then becoming a police officer here in San Diego, they were choices that was not of my own but they were the choices of my opponent. The system of Professor Chow is very diversed in so much that you can either restrain, subdue, create great bodily injury or even kill if deemed necessary so to say that the Chinese Kara-Ho Kempo Karate system is very brutal is a statement that only those that confront someone who practices the art would be able to make that decision. But to us who have and are giving our life to it, would beg to differ.

I have enjoyed my studies in both systems, Kara-Ho is something you could never use on a drunk uncle who has gotten beligerant at a family party, not unless you don't mind putting him in the hospital. American Kenpo alows for such a more mild application. They both have strong points, and both have weak points. All in all it just depends on the kenpoka him self, what is he looking for in an art, and what is he willing to put into it...

** This is a statement made by someone who only dabbed or read about Kara-Ho as there are many submissive and restraining techniques that are tauight if you have been training for a while. I have had to use these techniques more times then not as a police officer and I have also had to restrain a drunk relative of my brother in law without causing too much injury.
Also yes, Aikido was indeed a big part of the Kara-Ho System but in the later rankings, are taught the softer forms and techniques to envy the Chinese style from which it was first derived. In fact many instructors that have dedicated themselves to learning the art will see the softer art after 3rd degree black belt. As I said Aikido is only a small part of the system, while the Kung Fu Art displays the stronger foundation and Professor Chow made sure of that. Many people do not realize that the system that Professor Chow worked so hard to mnaster and develop are taught in the middle stages of the system, so that which was taught from the beginning are still taught today. Hope this answers most of your questions.
Grandmaster Kuoha

 

[MA-Caver]

WOAH fellas! if possible revert/edit your text to plain black.. that red is making it awfully hard to read. Thank you...
:asian:

 

[bayonet]

I am interested in witnessing a Kara Ho class. I live on Maui and get over to Oahu quite frequently. I have checked the phone book and have never seen an advertisement or phone number for a Kara Ho dojo. But the lastest edition of Inside Kung Fu has a number for three Kara Ho dojos on Oahu. I study EPAK but would love to see Kara Ho in action. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Also did SGM Parker and SGM Kuoha ever train with one another? Both being local boys from Oahu I would assume so. And what makes Mr. Parker's art less brutal than Kara Ho? Just curious. We have some lethal moves in Ak as well but I cannot comment on Kara Ho although from what I have read Mr. Chow was a lethal fighter, that might be an understatement also.
Thank you.

 

[gmkuoha]

I am interested in witnessing a Kara Ho class. I live on Maui and get over to Oahu quite frequently. I have checked the phone book and have never seen an advertisement or phone number for a Kara Ho dojo. But the lastest edition of Inside Kung Fu has a number for three Kara Ho dojos on Oahu. I study EPAK but would love to see Kara Ho in action. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
* We did have 3 schools on Oahu at one time under the same instructor, but he was terminated for promoting people that were not ready and not qualified. These people are now high ranking in his own system, which he made up. We do have a school in Kahuku side where Shihan Kahananui teaches to a few private students but you can probably visit them on a training night. His phone number is: (808) 232-0008. You can advise him that you want to come down and observe a class as you are from a different style.
By the way, my family is from Maui and we still own land out there. We are orginally from the Keanae area and were taro planters and we had poi mills out there. If you travel that area, many of the streets are named after my family.

Also did SGM Parker and SGM Kuoha ever train with one another? Both being local boys from Oahu I would assume so. And what makes Mr. Parker's art less brutal than Kara Ho? Just curious. We have some lethal moves in Ak as well but I cannot comment on Kara Ho although from what I have read Mr. Chow was a lethal fighter, that might be an understatement also.
* I knew Mr. Parker but we never trained nor crossed paths with each other during training. I trained under Sensei Kuheana, who was a protege under Professor Chow in the late 50's. I have a tape from Professor Chow taken in the late 70's that says Parker trained under him for about 3 years, moved to Utah and contacted him to get his black belt so they could open business. Professor Did that, but that was the last he heard from Parker and that is why he was so angry.
I believe because of the conflict between the two, Parker decided to ennovate his system to be very different from Chow's as he did not want any more conflict between them. I did know Parker as his best friend was my cousin, the professional entertainer, Joe Makahilahila, who sang with Don Ho and Danny Kaliikini.
That is an understatement of Professor Chow. He was unbelievable and you had to train with him daily to realize the knowledge this man possessed. Everyday was a challenge to train with him as it was different. He would multiply techniques upon techniques even when we weren't training, so many of his insights were written on napkins from the Chinese restuarant we were at when he started to show me how and what to do during our meals. Yes, he did draw some attention, but I think everyone knew him and expected him to react that way. His moves were catlike and very kung fu, but his strikes were devastating. I have so many stories about what we did being together all the time, that I could write several books and may do so anyways down the line.
Grandmaster Kuoha

 

[Danjo]

I have so many stories about what we did being together all the time, that I could write several books and may do so anyways down the line.
Grandmaster Kuoha

Well, if you wanted to have a book that would absolutely sell out very quickly, it would be either a biography of Professor Chow, or else a biographical Memoir of your time training with him. Get it published and put the amazon link to it here, and watch it go!

 

[Toasty]

Thank you very much for all the follow up GM Kuoha!

Again, very informative.

Be well
Rob