How can we avoid this argument?

[Kung Fu Wang]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

People seem to think by stating that MA is for more than just fighting, you're taking away the importance of fighting in MA. Like the two ideas of MA being for fighting and health (or whichever etc.) can't co-exist, and MA is a zero sum game (as you give more to your health, you take away from fighting), rather than possibly working together.

In my close minded opinion, unless people can understand that it is NOT a zero sum game, and a style can teach fighting even if the practitioner doesn't care about that at all, the argument will just continue to happen. Or we can accept that we disagree, and not spend 10 pages a thread arguing about it over and over.

 

[FighterTwister]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

In short by:-

• First - by excepting other peoples choices as to what they want to achieve or accomplish in MA.
• Second - provide a simple explanation as to why you are choosing that path.
• Thirdly - MA is always a journey you take there are pro's and cons to each of the above two choices.

I did post here:- Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

 

[Anarax]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

The majority of people already make up their minds and regardless of the evidence you present they still think their beliefs are correct. I've been in similar arguments in person and online, most people aren't willing to process the thought "maybe I'm wrong". Pride and Ignorance are the root cause of the arguments you speak of. Some of the threads are intentionally written to insult and incite a response. I think my next post will be ALL TRADITIONAL MARTIAL ARTS SUCKS AND EVERYONE WHO TRAINS IT SUCKS. I'm sure that will generate a healthy and productive discussion. What do you think?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The majority of people already make up their minds ...

This is why we should avoid this kind of argument. It separates us apart.

 

[FighterTwister]

This is why we should avoid this kind of argument. It separates us apart.

A good conversation is a good thing............... bad attitude or ignorance mixed with arrogance is not a good thing.

Its about "RESPECT" for all people and for all martial arts!

Lets put it this way.......... "Without the roots there is no tree with the many branches"!

You need people practicing the old and mastering it and you need people adopting new methods or combining multiple martial arts as package of skills.

All martial arts are a fighting system or form of expressing the human body E.g...... two legs, two arms, head and eyes etc

There is nothing new there right, so people must see things as they really are first like I mention above then you can have a good discussion from there on.

Old Chinese proverbs are olds gems best never forgotten, as it can also be said like this being a TIGER (Spirit of a Warrior) is a great achievement but without the knowledge of a DRAGON ( Spirit of Wisdom ) you will suffer much and vice versa.

Learning the roots is foundational to growth and deserves much appreciation and respect!

Knowing self is important!

 

[drop bear]

If your martial art Promise's fighting. Deliver on that. If it Promise's happiness deliver on that.

If you can't deliver don't change the goal posts. Or start claiming you deliver on some sort of unquantifiable rubbish.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

I don't think it can be avoided.

 

[FighterTwister]

I don't think it can be avoided.

Yes it can be avoided in a sense, just by respecting others using manners and common sense getting educated on the subject before posting helps also!

Do people actually go around bashing everyone on the street NO or do they go around confronting everyone's opinion face to face NO!

So in reality practice being civil online as well its not a avenue for anyone to be aggressive and state your opinion as a final say or fact without having the correct view on the subject matter.

However with good research knowledge and common sense most of these perceived ideas or facts are nothing more than misunderstood and twisted perceptions of the real truth or facts misinterpreted and poorly understood, by not having a good foundation of the subject matter in the first place.

People have become use to the idea that going online to shut down what does not make sense to them is okay, this being very ignorant, arrogant and poor of any real understanding on the subject matter.

For example these two points:-

1. - MA is only for fighting.
2. - MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

Are actually one point with two outcomes in that above statement not two separate points or paths that can be taken.

See again perception how one person reads what they want it to read, when in fact thats not the truth or fact at all.

So the correct view is.... MA are forms of fighting that are good for health, self-cultivation, inner peace, ..............

Here is another example of misunderstood or incorrect perception....... JKD Chi Sao Vs. Wing Chun Chi Sao

You see it clearly now, right, I hope so, its all day right in front of you...............

But I would also add to that list when we speak in terms of facts so that now becomes another thread altogether.

Is the issue becoming clearer now to people or not?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

I don't think we can avoid it. The issue isn't the different views, it is that there are some of each view who cannot see things from the other's view. Their views become radical and dogmatic in some cases,and contradictory dogma will always lead to argument.

 

[FighterTwister]

I don't think we can avoid it. The issue isn't the different views, it is that there are some of each view who cannot see things from the other's view. Their views become radical and dogmatic in some cases,and contradictory dogma will always lead to argument.

What are we really talking about, here really?

Its seems there is more foul attitude than personal views of their martial arts towards other peoples passions and interests.

To me its all, EXCUSES!

I have been on various Forums since 2005 for example "Flight Sim Forums" and other interests I have as Forums I visit.

People use this medium being the internet like a weapon to be a place to vent their frustration cause emotional harm to others and enjoy ridiculing and harassing others by being rude, arrogant, pigheaded, unwilling to accept others and generally choose to be unkind to its members being a Forum in the same interest.

So instead of choosing to be a thorn or a hindrance causing disunity you may discuss your opinion without making claims that others are wrong and you are right sort of comments.

I means that is why people registered right!

Or should we question their intent and purpose for being here, that's another thread altogether if you ask me?!?!

So its more about their knowledge on the subject matter as well as their emotional intelligence and not being able to communicate constructively and intelligently, with the ability to learn and respect other peoples views and opinions in a communication based medium like an "Online Discussion Forum" being a communication tool for like minded people.

"Live and Let Live"............. you do your thing I do mine is the right thinking here and when we cross paths just have a good conversation and respect the others.

Just as if you were invited to a seminar in JKD and your a Karate 4 Dan master etc you are there to listen, learn and share some input just being a respectful person.

You would still bow and give courtesy and respect the members, it would be foolish to start an argument based on foundational views of martial arts or make erroneous claims that its a poor substandard martial art.

Again and I have said this a a few times already people must respect the roots to all martial arts its why we have a full grown tree with many branches, that provide much knowledge and strong foundations.

Greeds, philosophy's, doctrines, beliefs are within that circle of trust for each martial art member to agree to as a practitioner of that art form. It does not cross over to other art forms as they all differ in principles outlined in the mission statement of that institution and the personal views and concepts of the founder like a business.

Various Martial Art "Pledges/Doctrines" differ in the direction and design they wish to follow under the umbrella of MARTIAL ARTS they teach. None are the same as its more a focus and direction being a statement of beliefs for it members, than a whole truth across all martial art forms.

This Forum in my understanding is about and I quote the link here:- About MartialTalk

So the rest is all nonsense, and egotistical rambles of those that lack self navigation of their own thoughts and opinions before posting, disrespecting the wider family of martial arts as a whole!

Is that any clearer now!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What are we really talking about, here really?

Its seems there is more foul attitude than personal views of their martial arts towards other peoples passions and interests.

To me its all, EXCUSES!

I have been on various Forums since 2005 for example "Flight Sim Forums" and other interests I have as Forums I visit.

People use this medium being the internet like a weapon to be a place to vent their frustration cause emotional harm to others and enjoy ridiculing and harassing others by being rude, arrogant, pigheaded, unwilling to accept others and generally choose to be unkind to its members being a Forum in the same interest.

So instead of choosing to be a thorn or a hindrance causing disunity you may discuss your opinion without making claims that others are wrong and you are right sort of comments.

I means that is why people registered right!

Or should we question their intent and purpose for being here, that's another thread altogether if you ask me?!?!

So its more about their knowledge on the subject matter as well as their emotional intelligence and not being able to communicate constructively and intelligently, with the ability to learn and respect other peoples views and opinions in a communication based medium like an "Online Discussion Forum" being a communication tool for like minded people.

"Live and Let Live"............. you do your thing I do mine is the right thinking here and when we cross paths just have a good conversation and respect the others.

Just as if you were invited to a seminar in JKD and your a Karate 4 Dan master etc you are there to listen, learn and share some input just being a respectful person.

You would still bow and give courtesy and respect the members, it would be foolish to start an argument based on foundational views of martial arts or make erroneous claims that its a poor substandard martial art.

Again and I have said this a a few times already people must respect the roots to all martial arts its why we have a full grown tree with many branches, that provide much knowledge and strong foundations.

Greeds, philosophy's, doctrines, beliefs are within that circle of trust for each martial art member to agree to as a practitioner of that art form. It does not cross over to other art forms as they all differ in principles outlined in the mission statement of that institution and the personal views and concepts of the founder like a business.

Various Martial Art "Pledges/Doctrines" differ in the direction and design they wish to follow under the umbrella of MARTIAL ARTS they teach none are the same as its more focus and direction a statement of beliefs for it members, than a whole truth.

This Forum in my understanding is about and I quote the link here:- About MartialTalk

So the rest is all nonsense, and egotistical rambles of those that lack self navigation of their own thoughts and opinions before posting, disrespecting the wider family of martial arts as a whole!

Is that any clearer now!

That doesn't change my response. People who bring dogmatic views will argue. We have a few choices of how we respond: argue back by dogma, present reasonable counter-arguments for others who are reading the thread (knowing we won't change dogmatic views), ignore them entirely. There are probably other options I'm not thinking of.

 

[FighterTwister]

That doesn't change my response. People who bring dogmatic views will argue. We have a few choices of how we respond: argue back by dogma, present reasonable counter-arguments for others who are reading the thread (knowing we won't change dogmatic views), ignore them entirely. There are probably other options I'm not thinking of.

How about stay on topic and don't be a pain

LoL

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How about stay on topic and don't be a pain

LoL

How about not being snitty. That is entirely on the topic you posted.

 

[FighterTwister]

How about not being snitty. That is entirely on the topic you posted.

Unsure what you mean but people are not stupid they know and have some form of intelligence called the "CONSCIOUS" (Good and Bad or Right and Wrong) if they are correct or not in their opinions some do things knowingly meaning with malice some mistakenly and then apologizes there is a difference in behaviors there normally is a pattern that you can see that is obvious.

Are you taking my replying comments as personal rebuttals, please know that is not the case but just chatting with whomever replies.

Generally just here for good chats.

But I agree with original poster sentiments in first post there needs to be a better understanding and approach, but surely its all a play on words being the internet LoL

 

[Flying Crane]

One's mileage may vary.

You won't win an internet argument. move along, there is nothing to see here.

 

[Danny T]

Almost in each and ever thread discussion, we will all get into the following argument:

- MA is only for fighting.
- MA is more than just for fighting. MA can be for health, performance, self-cultivation, inner peace, ...

How can we avoid this argument so we don't have to go through this in each and every thread? Your thought?

How do you not argue or avoid argument?
Allow the fact that others have different opinions, thoughts, ideas. Listen to them, acknowledge them, accept that they are different and move on. If it is something that is fact and another is spouting something different; state the fact, show the data, and move on.
Simple.
But...no. Some always have to prove they are correct and the other is wrong. Not different, Wrong. So argument happens because both want to prove they are correct, they want to win, they have to win.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Unsure what you mean but people are not stupid they know and have some form of intelligence called the "CONSCIOUS" (Good and Bad or Right and Wrong) if they are correct or not in their opinions some do things knowingly meaning with malice some mistakenly and then apologizes there is a difference in behaviors there normally is a pattern that you can see that is obvious.

Are you taking my replying comments as personal rebuttals, please know that is not the case but just chatting with whomever replies.

Generally just here for good chats.

But I agree with original poster sentiments in first post there needs to be a better understanding and approach, but surely its all a play on words being the internet LoL

I never called people stupid. I said some take dogmatic views, and there is no (successful) arguing against dogma.

As for your reply being a rebuttal, you quoted my post when you posted it. That's normally done as a reply. If that wasn't your intention, I retract my response. When it's not your intention to reply to a specific post, it's clearest if you don't quote one.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I just put the people who really get up my sleeve on ignore. My life is much less complicated that way. I'm sure many have me on ignore as well, and for good reason. Do what you have to do, or put up with the notion that people are going to disagree about nearly everything.

 

[drop bear]

One's mileage may vary.

You won't win an internet argument. move along, there is nothing to see here.

You should be winning and loosing internet arguments. Otherwise are you even interacting?