How being vegetarian does more harm to the environment than eating meat

[Jenny_in_Chico]

You may not like government controls but here McDonalds has to use British and Irish beef from reputable farms and it has to be 'proper' beef no reclaimed stuff. Likewise the pork etc. This isn't because McDonalds is any more 'caring' here, it's what customers demand and the government backs up with legislation.
I've never tasted American McDs but they aren't bad here though I wouldn't call it cheap food.

Governmental controls are intended to force people to do what they know they should be doing, but are too lazy or cheap or prejudiced to actually practice. In my opinion, governmental control should be limited to what is absolutely necessary to make society function while protecting the lives and liberties of the people. Everything else should be left up to the individual as a personal choice. In this case, however, the question becomes "Does big agribusiness, and all of the practices and techniques associated with it, positively or negatively contribute to society?" It is a complicated issue, because it has implications for human health, the environment, the economy, etc etc. Here in America, food companies will make their products from the crappiest stuff they can, while doing their damndest to convince you that they are feeding you nectar and ambrosia. I think that in the case of McDonalds and other companies, what I would like to see is greater transparency concerning the source of the food, quality compared to other sources, the handling, the nutritional value, etc, so that the consumer can make an educated choice. Pt a pamphlet containing all of that info right on the counter next to the ketchup dispenser. If people want to then eat crap, knowing it is crap, that is their own choice. This has been done to a certain extent with nutritional info, but it really should be extended to all aspects of the food production.

 

[Tez3]

Governmental controls are intended to force people to do what they know they should be doing, but are too lazy or cheap or prejudiced to actually practice. In my opinion, governmental control should be limited to what is absolutely necessary to make society function while protecting the lives and liberties of the people. Everything else should be left up to the individual as a personal choice. In this case, however, the question becomes "Does big agribusiness, and all of the practices and techniques associated with it, positively or negatively contribute to society?" It is a complicated issue, because it has implications for human health, the environment, the economy, etc etc. Here in America, food companies will make their products from the crappiest stuff they can, while doing their damndest to convince you that they are feeding you nectar and ambrosia. I think that in the case of McDonalds and other companies, what I would like to see is greater transparency concerning the source of the food, quality compared to other sources, the handling, the nutritional value, etc, so that the consumer can make an educated choice. Pt a pamphlet containing all of that info right on the counter next to the ketchup dispenser. If people want to then eat crap, knowing it is crap, that is their own choice. This has been done to a certain extent with nutritional info, but it really should be extended to all aspects of the food production.

Yeah well thats us, the down trodden masses under the foot of the socialist government isn't that what you all think?

We have the nutritional information in McDonalds (yes by the ketchup) as well as most of the food we buy. It gives all information as well as what the meat is whether reconstituted or not and it gives percentages of the ingredients. It's an EU thing, but also most EU people still buy fresh food and buy from local markets.
http://www.food.gov.uk/foodlabelling/

If I buy a product from the supermarket such as peanut butter there is a big label on the back with allergy advice, then it says suitable for vegetarians then ingredients......
"Peanut (74%) dried glucose syrup, vegetable fat, salt."
Next is the nutrition
"100g contains energy 2290k/550k cal. Protein 20.0g, Carbohydrate 34.2g (of which sugar s 15.2g) Fat 37.0g (of which saturates 6.5g mono-unsaturates 20.4g, polyunsaturates10.0) Fibre 5.3g, Sodium 0.2g, Salt Equivilant 0.5g, Each tablespoon typically weighs 15g."

It also gives the information of where the food was made/grown/reared and where packaged.

this type of information is available for just about any food now including what you will find in McDs. It's actually very simple, we have the choice to read or not, to buy or not.

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/flash/eatwellflashlabel.swf

 

[Ken Morgan]

I don't know about the UK or the US, but here in Canada McDs beef is really beef. However beef can come from a variety of inexpensive sources. Where do you think the older, inefficient dairy cows go? Thousands a week end up as burgers for McD's.
Does it matter? I don't know.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

Yeah well thats us, the down trodden masses under the foot of the socialist government isn't that what you all think?

Have I ever said anything to make you think I believe that?

 

[Tez3]

Have I ever said anything to make you think I believe that?

The first two sentences of your post says that.

 

[shesulsa]

Omigosh, Tez, PLEASE stop thinking every general, broad-scoping comment about socialist governments is a blatant attack on you and your country. It's not. Okay?

Topic:

There are a lot of laws in place to protects us from bad animal foods and they generally work - except how much the quality of animal-based foods has altered our physical well-being *in the USA.* Corporations DO break laws in the interest of the bottom line - it likely happens every day except when the inspectors come.

That said ... I don't feel like I'm preaching veganism or vegetarianism by noting the global benefits of eating less flesh foods and - more specifically - factory farmed foods. I'm not judging anyone's eating habits - what you eat is your business, it's not up to me to tell you what's in your food.

We can have discussions about these things without people taking the statement "naturally raised beef is healthier than factory farmed beef" as a personal insult directed at them.

The article referenced in the original post is misleading to say the least. Again - wanna help the environment? Focus your meals around veggies and whole grains. 3/4s of your plate should be fruit or vegetables. Any grain you consume should be a whole grain. You can taste the difference between naturally, locally raised flesh and commercial factory-farmed flesh foods and animal products.

Have a glorious day! TO EVERYONE!

 

[xJOHNx]

As a friend last night said at a hardcoreshow:
"I have the duty of informing you, but the choice to listen is all yours".
Especially once your realise how much people are ill-informed about what they eat.

@ Jenny: I know you was joking, I just played along

 

[Tez3]

Omigosh, Tez, PLEASE stop thinking every general, broad-scoping comment about socialist governments is a blatant attack on you and your country. It's not. Okay?

Topic:

There are a lot of laws in place to protects us from bad animal foods and they generally work - except how much the quality of animal-based foods has altered our physical well-being *in the USA.* Corporations DO break laws in the interest of the bottom line - it likely happens every day except when the inspectors come.

That said ... I don't feel like I'm preaching veganism or vegetarianism by noting the global benefits of eating less flesh foods and - more specifically - factory farmed foods. I'm not judging anyone's eating habits - what you eat is your business, it's not up to me to tell you what's in your food.

We can have discussions about these things without people taking the statement "naturally raised beef is healthier than factory farmed beef" as a personal insult directed at them.

The article referenced in the original post is misleading to say the least. Again - wanna help the environment? Focus your meals around veggies and whole grains. 3/4s of your plate should be fruit or vegetables. Any grain you consume should be a whole grain. You can taste the difference between naturally, locally raised flesh and commercial factory-farmed flesh foods and animal products.

Have a glorious day! TO EVERYONE!

Ok it'll just be every other post then! When people have stuff slamming liberals in their sigs and when people post so much hatred for liberals and blame everything on them it's hard not to get the message that socialists (which I'm not btw) which is what you mean by liberals aren't the best liked people.
Besides my post was IRONIC not paranoid.

 

[Steve]

Well, Tez, the thread was actually pretty friendly until you jumped in accusing everyone of being unfriendly and playing the victim. Sheesh. How did you manage to turn this thread into both a meatlover vs vegetarian AND a US vs Europe thread in just a couple of posts?

REcently, Washington has begun requiring that restaurants provide a menu that has nutriotional information on it at all places that sell food. I really like it. It's easier to say no to a large fry when you know that it has over 400 calories. That's not a socialist thing or a european thing. It just makes sense and I like it. That way, you don't get the chicken wrap that's been marketed as healthy, while unknowingly eating 400 calories per snack wrap and tons of sugar and fat. Once again, it's about giving people real information and letting them make the choice. I have no problem with someone eating a super sized meal and a giganto milkshake if they want. But they should know exactly what's in it when they do.

 

[Tez3]

Well, Tez, the thread was actually pretty friendly until you jumped in accusing everyone of being unfriendly and playing the victim. Sheesh. How did you manage to turn this thread into both a meatlover vs vegetarian AND a US vs Europe thread in just a couple of posts?

REcently, Washington has begun requiring that restaurants provide a menu that has nutriotional information on it at all places that sell food. I really like it. It's easier to say no to a large fry when you know that it has over 400 calories. That's not a socialist thing or a european thing. It just makes sense and I like it. That way, you don't get the chicken wrap that's been marketed as healthy, while unknowingly eating 400 calories per snack wrap and tons of sugar and fat. Once again, it's about giving people real information and letting them make the choice. I have no problem with someone eating a super sized meal and a giganto milkshake if they want. But they should know exactly what's in it when they do.

Really thats how you read it. Ok if thats how you lot feel I'll bugger off then.
One comment made tongue in cheek and its a sense of humour failure all round.
Have a nice life guys.

 

[Steve]

Really thats how you read it. Ok if thats how you lot feel I'll bugger off then.
One comment made tongue in cheek and its a sense of humour failure all round.
Have a nice life guys.

What was meant tongue in cheek? If I misunderstood then my bad, but I honestly don't see it. I don't know if I'm the only one who missed it or not, but from your reaction, it sounds like you just missed your mark. So, what was jest and what was serious? Reading through the thread it just looked like you stirred the pot up a little while claiming to do otherwise.

 

[Archangel M]

Tez.

I think we have gone around on this "liberal" thing of yours before. This is predominantly a US forum and thus we tend to refer to "liberals" in the US political sense...not the UK one.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

When I chop the carrots, I like to make the lettuce watch.

 

[CoryKS]

When I chop the carrots, I like to make the lettuce watch.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

Tez, I said this:

"Governmental controls are intended to force people to do what they know they should be doing, but are too lazy or cheap or prejudiced to actually practice. In my opinion, governmental control should be limited to what is absolutely necessary to make society function while protecting the lives and liberties of the people."

And your response, based on those two sentences, was this:

"Yeah well thats us, the down trodden masses under the foot of the socialist government isn't that what you all think?"

Honestly, I'm not sure how you made that leap. I used respectful language, and was careful to state that this was my own opinion. These statements could describe a socialist government as well. Presumeably, most citizens or subjects of a country led by a socialist government agree that the laws and statutes set in place are necessary for the functioning of society and the protection of the lives and liberties of the people. British people clearly feel that those laws pertaining to how restaurants source their foodstuffs are important and necessary. I feel that in my own country, I would rather the laws or regulations be pointed in a different direction, so that consumers are offered a wider choice, but provided with enough data to make an informed decision. We all know that we should eat cleanly and ethically. Britons seem to agree that they would prefer that restaurants such as McDonalds only provide clean options. Most Americans would probably resent that solution, not because they resent governmental interference, but because the food would be more expensive.

I have no problem with how the British live their lives or run their country. It's your country, not mine. I have never thought of the British people as weak or downtrodden. I've never said a negative thing about socialists or liberals, in fact I have often referred to myself a liberal in discussions on MT.

 

[Blade96]

"Governmental controls are intended to force people to do what they know they should be doing, but are too lazy or cheap or prejudiced to actually practice. In my opinion, governmental control should be limited to what is absolutely necessary to make society function while protecting the lives and liberties of the people."

"Yeah well thats us, the down trodden masses under the foot of the socialist government isn't that what you all think?

This thread isnt about socialism vs conservatism/liberalism/we you wanna call it

but i'd just like to say a few words about it. I'm a left winger (who agrees so much with what ken morgan writes that I sometimes forget he's a conservative, but then he'll say something regarding big or small gov or capitalism and it all reminds me again)

but I think left wingers and right wingers are often at odds. why? Because they both have their own definition of what the word 'freedom' means.

What does this have to do with crap food and such? Left wingers would believe it should be regulated because the blame does not rest squarely on the individual whether he eats crap food or not. It isnt always a choice. so we need protection, even from ourselves sometimes. Right wingers would generally say leave gov out of it its people's choice whether they eat crap food and choose to eat crap food and the capitalists that do it should not be regulated. it tends to be in right wing thinking, that gov should be small, they scorn welfare and things like that and think that its a person's choice whether they sink or swim and if they work hard enough anybody can make it.