Honesty and Integrity

[Rich Parsons]

Hmmmm School education = Intelligent or smart.

Martial Arts Training = Zen Mastery

Just because you graduate from college does not mean you are smart or intelligent.

Just because you study martial arts does not mean you are peaceful, honest or have integrity.


I knew a young lady with a BS in Math, a MS in PHysics and PhD in Electrical Engneering. She could not put together a halogen poll lamp. I also know guys who do not have a degree who can discuss the workings of a Transmission and the forces involved and also the forces of he vehicle at the same time.


One does not equate to the other. No matter how much we may want it to be.

:asian:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

Just because you study martial arts does not mean you are peaceful, honest or have integrity.
...
One does not equate to the other. No matter how much we may want it to be.

:asian:

I agree they do not equate, but I would like to think that if the art is transmitted properly by a person integrity, peace, etc.., that the result will be such things in the students.

Maybe it's just that most martial artists out there were taught by fighters and atheletes instead of the more idealistic sort of warrior-philosopher.

 

[Shinzu]

i think both are very important. especially when you grow with the arts. it is part of your foundation.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Ken JP Stuczynski
I agree they do not equate, but I would like to think that if the art is transmitted properly by a person integrity, peace, etc.., that the result will be such things in the students.

Maybe it's just that most martial artists out there were taught by fighters and atheletes instead of the more idealistic sort of warrior-philosopher.

Ken,

I agree it would be nice to think that if the instructor had these qualities, that the student does as well.

In another art from mine, a high ranking Okinawa Karate, had trained in Japan and Okinawa for his degrees. Yet in his club here in the USA on his walls was painted. "The Goal of the students of this club is a Black Belt" I think he missed it. At the very least in his teaching it to others. Note: He hosted a seminar for my GM and I had a chance to train with him and some of his senior students, and believe me when I say that most were lacking in honesty and integrity.

This is something else that is mistaken in the Martial Arts as well. Oh he has high rank he is a great teacher. Some High ranking practitioners are just that practitioners, and have no teaching ability.

Just my Opinions
:asian:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
... Note: He hosted a seminar for my GM and I had a chance to train with him and some of his senior students, and believe me when I say that most were lacking in honesty and integrity.

This is something else that is mistaken in the Martial Arts as well. Oh he has high rank he is a great teacher. Some High ranking practitioners are just that practitioners, and have no teaching ability.

For "opinions", they both hit the mark.

The latter is the main problem of transmission in lineages. Which gets the baton passed to them as head of a system? The best practitioner or the best teacher? They are rarely the same person. That's why a longer lineage isn't necessarily better.

With the former though, the error is not in my assumption (as idealistic as it may be), but in that many people start their own schools who do not (or should not) have the teacher's blessing.

In my own case, I beleive that my teaching methods "weed out" people who cannot see the point -- the higher path. Students who lack certain qualities will simply not find what they are looking for in me, and move on. And I won't acknowledge anyone's "seniority" unless it is earned on ALL levels.

But again, that's just the way I teach, and other teachers may not have planned this into their teaching (or not known how to). Would make a nice thread, though, eh?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Ken JP Stuczynski
For "opinions", they both hit the mark.

. . .

But again, that's just the way I teach, and other teachers may not have planned this into their teaching (or not known how to). Would make a nice thread, though, eh?

Feel Free to start a thread on this topic. That is what this board is for. The exchange if ideas in a friendly manner is what this board claims and tries to promote.

:asian:

 

[John Bishop]

I've always felt that the negative aspects of the martial arts started about the time someone figured out they could make money teaching martial arts.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by John Bishop
I've always felt that the negative aspects of the martial arts started about the time someone figured out they could make money teaching martial arts.

Nope. It was a power trip long before that.

 

[angrywhitepajamas]

On the other hand once they realized what money they could make for miniomal effort via multilevel marketing strategies, they jumped on the band wagon along with other multi level marketing schemes. This includes the power tripp.

 

[A.R.K.]

I've always felt that the negative aspects of the martial arts started about the time someone figured out they could make money teaching martial arts.

I think John has expressed a very valid point.

:asian:

 

[Captain Harlock]

Honesty and integrity are fast becoming lost in the arts. The focus is now on Ego and Greed.

Those who have had the pleasure of training under the few truely honorable instructors left understand just how blessed you are.

And you who have bought your rank, status, or reputations, be damned for to you the way is forever outside your reach.

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Honesty and integrity are fast becoming lost in the arts. The focus is now on Ego and Greed.

Those who have had the pleasure of training under the few truely honorable instructors left understand just how blessed you are.

And you who have bought your rank, status, or reputations, be damned for to you the way is forever outside your reach.

I think it was in A&E's Biography of Bruce Lee, people that were
around him at various stages of his life said there were always
challengers. While shooting Return Of The Dragon, there were
multiple challengers, DAILY, from Hong Kong, not to mention the
roof top battles he engaged in before moving to the states.
What else could fuel that sort of conduct other than the desire
to be the big boy on the block? What would drive that? Ego,
and Greed. This tells me that it's always been a part of M.A.,
except maybe not in the original temples.

It seems to me that in kenpo, the most humble, non political
seniors seem to have the largest followings, and the most loyal
students. Maybe a sign of change.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Kirk
I think it was in A&E's Biography of Bruce Lee, people that were
around him at various stages of his life said there were always
challengers. While shooting Return Of The Dragon, there were
multiple challengers, DAILY, from Hong Kong, not to mention the
roof top battles he engaged in before moving to the states.
What else could fuel that sort of conduct other than the desire
to be the big boy on the block? What would drive that? Ego,
and Greed. ...

Bruce may be a bad example (due to his ego), but accepting challengers is part of the evolutionary process of martial arts. Without it, development would be slow, collaboration non-existent, and many arts would degrade into a pitiful "I got by but kicked because he didn't fight the way we do in our school."

I'm not saying the "king of the hill" stuff isn't usually nonsense, but without some of it, there's no reality in the theory.

 

[Shinzu]

trying to find a person that is more focused on the arts than the mony is a difficult thing in itself.

too many see the green grass at the other end, but do not want to take the time to plant the seeds.

 

[A.R.K.]

Often time those who teach out of their garage, or in the park, or at a church etc are better teachers than those with all the whistles and bells.

The whole point is the teaching of the discipline, not the fluff and feathers.

If the instructor is not burdened with expenses, maybe he can concentrate more on just teaching???

Just a thought and in no way meant to disrespect good school owners. Aimed at the McDojo's.

:asian:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Often time those who teach out of their garage, or in the park, or at a church etc are better teachers than those with all the whistles and bells.
...
If the instructor is not burdened with expenses, maybe he can concentrate more on just teaching???

If you teach out of your garage, you probably ARE burdened with expeses (living expenses) and must have a job and cannot devote full time to your art. I've never seen anyone teach full-time out of their house or basement, etc..

In other words, it works both ways.

There are good and bad schools in and out of strip malls. In the malls, you risk McDojo, in the basement, you risk Cult-Fu.

 

[A.R.K.]

Ken,

I understand your point. I see it a bit differently . For example, I have been blessed with a full time career and part time teaching at the local college. So when I teach the A.R.K. discipline to others, it is out of passion and a desire to pass on what I've learned. It isn't about making extra money, in fact, I really don't make very much.

I have three assistants, one of which has an office building that he allows us to use space in. So I have no overhead save the annual insurance and equipment upkeep. That is the point about someone teaching out of the garage, park, church etc. They may well be doing it for love of teaching not the politics and $ that have invaded the world of martial arts.

Think of it this way, remove the greed and politics from the martial arts and what would we have.......

:asian:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
...
Think of it this way, remove the greed and politics from the martial arts and what would we have.......

:asian:

People like us.




But we don't disagree ... I just see the advantage of running it as a business publicly, allowing one full time teaching, is apples to oranges with the Non-McDojo low-overhead lessons with less accountability. They both have advantages and disadvantages, and I would never say one is better than the other except on a case-by-case basis.

My situation is closer to yours, as I could never make it a living without it becoming a business, and I don't want that. But I still like the idea of doing it full-time and really improving my skills (and shape!). It's a catch-22.

 

[tshadowchaser]

My situation is closer to yours, as I could never make it a living without it becoming a business, and I don't want that. But I still like the idea of doing it full-time and really improving my skills (and shape!). It's a catch-22.

I'll agree with that statement completly.
I'd love to just teach and train, and study but cant affrd it . I would have to change my whole way of teaching to keep a place open all the time, and I will not sell belts just to stay open.


Then again I do have this great bb course for $3000 :rofl: Cash up front 30 day wonders:rofl:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
... Then again I do have this great bb course for $3000 :rofl: Cash up front 30 day wonders:rofl:

Does it include a FREE uniform, and death touch? Do you take PayPal?

:rofl: