Honesty and Integrity

[Joe]

I know my instructor has a small Dojo and very rearely even breaks even but his desire to share the Arts isnt taken away by no fluff. Ive been to Mcdojo and prefer a basement, garage ect.

"Winning means beig unafraid to lose"

 

[A.R.K.]

Ive been to Mcdojo and prefer a basement, garage ect

:cheers:

 

[Shadow Hunter]

Ego and the need to be seen as macho is the drive the causes most of the fraud in the martial art. If someone can make money off of the arts, that is just icing on the cake.

It is a base emotional drive for many people. They want to be macho. We all know people who act this way.

If profit were the major drive of fraud in the martial arts, then why are there so many people who lie about their military records? Think about is. There is no profit in telling people that you were a decorated member of an elite unit. Yet people do it all the time.

Some of the most inept martial artists I have met did not teach for money. I just ran across another one today. They teach out of parks and the like and talk about how they do it for the passion, or their responsibility to prior generations...etc, but it all comes down to the fact that they are looked up to by their students.

Adn I am finding out that many of them infest the internet. They seem to be the most active members of many forums. And they are quick to quickly agree about problems they themselves help cause and talk about the problems with other people.

Oh, and the thing the guy who I ran across today was most vocal about was the greed of bigger teachers and orginizations. I felt like smacking him across the room, but there were too many witnesses and I have to keep a low profile right now.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by Shadow Hunter
Ego and the need to be seen as macho is the drive the causes most of the fraud in the martial art. If someone can make money off of the arts, that is just icing on the cake.
...
Some of the most inept martial artists I have met did not teach for money. I just ran across another one today. They teach out of parks and the like and talk about how they do it for the passion, or their responsibility to prior generations...etc, but it all comes down to the fact that they are looked up to by their students.

Adn I am finding out that many of them infest the internet. They seem to be the most active members of many forums. ...

I totally agree from personlal experience, except that I chased a fraud's school off the net more than once -- now they don't show their faces ANYWHERE if they can help it.

http://www.buffalotaichi.com/dragonsong/

 

[Shadow Hunter]

I have been doing some thinking and the biggest signs that you are dealing with a ego driven fraud can be summed up in three areas.

1- They start their own art. But they usually give great excuses as to why they need to be the uber- soke instead of just training and teaching under someone else.

2- They never talk about their teachers. In some cases, this is because they have no teachers and learned from books and videos. But in many cases it is because their entire life revolves around them with no acknowledgement of those that helped them get where they are.

3- They join impressive- sounding orginizations like the "World Combat Teachers Certification Authority." Membership in these types of orginizations only require a little bit of cash, some photos and some certificates that are never checked if they are genuine or not. But to the unwary they sound impressive and the guys in them make it sound like they are the most stringent with whom they will let in.

The twerp who I met yesterday fit all of the above. I showed up in the park to see him because I had never heard of the taiji style he had advertised. He was barely old enough to drink a beer but loved being treated as a master of martial arts. It was clear to me that he had never actually studied under a real teacher and instead put together what he had learned from various books and videos. He changed the subject when I asked whom he had learned from. And he claimed membership in an orginization that an internet search showed was little more than a mutual ego stroking society.

Profit is good, but there really is not much money in the martial arts unless your name happens to be a household name like Gracie, Segal, etc. But the chance to be seen as some sort of macho martial arts master is something that fuels the guys teaching out of their garages and parks.
:soapbox:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

David Moore ... anyone hear of him?

Probably not, even though he visited the Dali Lama in Tibet who knew him personally!

(Funny how the Dali Lama was in exile since before he was born ... it must have been "in spirit")

He gave me all kinds of runarounds when asked about his "private" art. And he gave me line after line of historical information I knew he was just making up.

 

[DAC..florida]

Originally posted by Ken JP Stuczynski
David Moore ... anyone hear of him?

Probably not, even though he visited the Dali Lama in Tibet who knew him personally!

(Funny how the Dali Lama was in exile since before he was born ... it must have been "in spirit")

He gave me all kinds of runarounds when asked about his "private" art. And he gave me line after line of historical information I knew he was just making up.

Maybe you should start a thread about this "moore" in the badbudo section, thats where your story would fit better and most members of this board know to go there for just that type of info.. Who knows maybe your not the only one he's lied to on this board.
:asian:

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Kirk
I think it was in A&E's Biography of Bruce Lee, people that were
around him at various stages of his life said there were always
challengers. While shooting Return Of The Dragon, there were
multiple challengers, DAILY, from Hong Kong, not to mention the
roof top battles he engaged in before moving to the states.
What else could fuel that sort of conduct other than the desire
to be the big boy on the block? What would drive that? Ego,
and Greed. This tells me that it's always been a part of M.A.,
except maybe not in the original temples.

It seems to me that in kenpo, the most humble, non political
seniors seem to have the largest followings, and the most loyal
students. Maybe a sign of change.

Did you know that it happened so conveniently that whenever such challenges occurred there was always a camera and a crew ready to film the fight for next day's headline? lol Words were those were preplanned publicity stunts. Don't get me wrong, I am not here to diss Lee.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Ken JP Stuczynski
If you teach out of your garage, you probably ARE burdened with expeses (living expenses) and must have a job and cannot devote full time to your art. I've never seen anyone teach full-time out of their house or basement, etc..

In other words, it works both ways.

There are good and bad schools in and out of strip malls. In the malls, you risk McDojo, in the basement, you risk Cult-Fu.

Yes. A scumball is a scumball. No matter whether he teaches (or more precisely, scams) out of his garage or the local Y or the stripmall, he is still scamming uninformed students.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by Shadow Hunter
I have been doing some thinking and the biggest signs that you are dealing with a ego driven fraud can be summed up in three areas.

1- They start their own art. But they usually give great excuses as to why they need to be the uber- soke instead of just training and teaching under someone else.

2- They never talk about their teachers. In some cases, this is because they have no teachers and learned from books and videos. But in many cases it is because their entire life revolves around them with no acknowledgement of those that helped them get where they are.

3- They join impressive- sounding orginizations like the "World Combat Teachers Certification Authority." Membership in these types of orginizations only require a little bit of cash, some photos and some certificates that are never checked if they are genuine or not. But to the unwary they sound impressive and the guys in them make it sound like they are the most stringent with whom they will let in.

The twerp who I met yesterday fit all of the above. I showed up in the park to see him because I had never heard of the taiji style he had advertised. He was barely old enough to drink a beer but loved being treated as a master of martial arts. It was clear to me that he had never actually studied under a real teacher and instead put together what he had learned from various books and videos. He changed the subject when I asked whom he had learned from. And he claimed membership in an orginization that an internet search showed was little more than a mutual ego stroking society.

Profit is good, but there really is not much money in the martial arts unless your name happens to be a household name like Gracie, Segal, etc. But the chance to be seen as some sort of macho martial arts master is something that fuels the guys teaching out of their garages and parks.
:soapbox:

Interesting!! Sound just like someone we know here....... Coincidence????

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Interesting!! Sound just like someone we know here....... Coincidence????

Who?

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by DAC..florida
Maybe you should start a thread about this "moore" in the badbudo section, thats where your story would fit better and most members of this board know to go there for just that type of info.. Who knows maybe your not the only one he's lied to on this board.
:asian:

Good idea -- consider it done.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by akja
Who?

Haha! Obviously not you. But I am sure you know WHO.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Haha! Obviously not you. But I am sure you know WHO.

I think I know who, but I mostly hang out in the FMA forums, so I am not sure who.

So...

Who?

 

[KennethKu]

LOL ! The "who" would probably stick his head in and declares the hat fits soon enough! lol

Oh here is another hint to the "puzzle", the 4th Characteristic missing from Shadow Hunter's list of signs of fraud is, the typical crook will hide behind God, Country and motherhood. He would typically camouflage or wrap himself in the flag, declaring repeatedly to anyone who shows any sign of interest that he is on some mesiahnic (sp?) mission to serve God, Country, teach in churches, rescue the weak, redeem the sinners from jail, instruct women, children for free, yada yada yada and so forth. lol

While I am at it, I would also like to point out that you can bet your a$$ that 99.99% of those who claim to be associated with or have connection to, or train the CIA, FBI, special forces, or whatever secret military/LEO units,(yeah right! Those orgs train their own operatives and agents inhouse and they don't need no stinking wannabe outsiders ), are: 1. nut case, 2, adolescences looking for attention, 3. adult losers, 4, liars.

Without exception, anyone who is worth his/her salt in those situation would NEVER reveal, let alone flaunt it openly. Even the janitors at the those facilities have Top Secret classification.

I am sure most who have been around the blocks a few times, already well aware of this little fact. But I hope this can benefit a few of the youngings.

 

[Cruentus]

Yup...I'm pretty sure that I know exactly who you're talking about, lol.

As for training Military or LEO....it isn't that hard to do. I have had units stationed at the near by base in Michigan train with me for a few weeks. I have had cops in my classes. It's really no big deal. I'm cheap (I discount them hugely), laid back, and I teach combat related arts that they find useful. They all have there own approved programs, but some like to explore some different avenues that aren't covered in their training.

Like I said, though, it's no big deal. I wasn't on some top secret base teaching top secret killing techniques. It just doesn't work that way.....Usually you have a guy in a unit who trains in this art, or found this instructor, so they all decide to take a lesson or two in that art. It's all kind of hacked together so that they can learn as much practical info as they can in a few short hours w/o having to waste a lot of time.

I don't claim it on my resume,' or use it as a marketing tool. I'm not Military, so I don't pretend. I find it funny when others do; it's one of those things that impresses the general public when there is nothing to be impressed about. Some people act like they were sanctioned by the government to teach when the reality is they may of had 1 or 2 LEO or Military in a class for a day. What morons....:rofl:

Ramble ramble..... :soapbox:

 

[A.R.K.]

Actually Ken,

While I am at it, I would also like to point out that you can bet your a$$ that 99.99% of those who claim to be associated with or have connection to, or train the CIA, FBI, special forces, or whatever secret military/LEO units,(yeah right! Those orgs train their own operatives and agents inhouse and they don't need no stinking wannabe outsiders ), are: 1. nut case, 2, adolescences looking for attention, 3. adult losers, 4, liars

its in very poor taste to talk about a poster who is know longer here to defend himself. Yes Ryu talked some tall tales such as teaching the CID which is the CIA of the DoD etc etc. But let it go Ken!

Oh, and lest I forget, there are some questions you have yet to answer. Here let me post the link..

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9257&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

Third from the bottom. I'm sure it was a simple oversight on your part....

Hey, great to see you back from your long suspension. You know, the one you earned for running your mouth. I'm sure you learned your lesson and that won't happen again.

Looking forward to your reply to the questions you've overlooked.

 

[A.R.K.]

Paul,

I understand your point and agree. But again, Ryu isn't here and shouldn't be picked on. Yes he admitted, when I confronted him] that he didn't teach 'for' the army but only had a couple of guys in his class from the nearby base. But he's packed up tent and went on his way. Let's just let it go...

:asian:

 

[Cruentus]

Dude...I don't think anybody was talking about Ryu.

And...I was just speaking generally.

 

[A.R.K.]

Paul,

My apologies. Ryu is the only one in recent memory that boasted this type of thing that I'm aware of. Sorry for making the assumption, my bad.

:asian: