Here is a hypothetical situation
- Thread starter SFC JeffJ
- Start date
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
If i injured someone I would definitely call 911 so that an ambulance could administer first aid and the police could arrest whomever they think should be arrested.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
Im not even thinking from a tactical standpoint........more from a human standpoint....If Ive already beaten the crap out of someone, enough that it requires medical attention, I dont think I'd be worried about him getting back up and wanting to fight me again.......And from the legal standpoint, who says I'm not trying to still hurt them while giving them first aid.
I would just call 911 and let EMS handle it. With that in mind, I would also go as far to say that I think it would be doing far more than you have to, to just leave them and not call EMS. In other words, leaving them and not at least calling EMS is morally no different than just finishing them off.
This is more of a moral question than anything else. You incapacitate someone to the point of needing medical attention. You being trained in First-Aid (and in some states are required to administer such via the Samaritan Law)... can provide succor. Do you do it?
Emotionally you're probably still ticked off at the person for attacking you in the first place. Probably don't give a damn about how bad they're hurting and that they deserved it anyway.
Yet where does compassion come in for the trained Martial Artist? In days of old many Martial Masters were also accomplished healers as well. One (off beat) example is a scene from the movie Karate Kid: Miyagi does that "thing" to Daniel's leg so he can continue the tournament.
But compassion is about the willingness to provide aid because it's the "right thing" to do.
Mercy, pity, compassion. Are these not traits that we as Martial Artists should likewise adopt? Chances are our (street) attackers won't be this way or have these attributes/virtues. So should we? Or is it simply call 911 and walk away?
I've had a guy in Washington D.C. "jump" me with intent to take whatever it was I had on me at the time... (little did he know that I was flat broke), I managed to get away from him by using a sword stroke with my hand across their throat. He went down gagging and clutching his throat. I picked up my stuff and continued on down the street. After about a block I turned around because I was wondering ... is that guy gonna live? Can he even breathe? When I saw someone else bending down over him I told myself if the guy is in serious trouble then whomever is bending over him providing help is going to call 911 and I can be well away from here by the time help arrives. T'was a bad neighborhood to begin with but my destination just happens to be in that neighborhood... (don't ask).
I've not felt good about leaving the guy like that, but it would/could've been dangerous for me to linger in the area... a white guy in a predominately black neighborhood with a injured black guy on the ground, possibly dying, thus my own safety was a higher priority to anything (or anyone) else at the time.
Still, it wasn't a good feeling for the rest of the night. I've said it before I don't like hurting people... but will not hesitate to do so if necessary. But now, if I can do so (safely) I'll provide what assistance I can until EMS arrives.
Emotionally you're probably still ticked off at the person for attacking you in the first place. Probably don't give a damn about how bad they're hurting and that they deserved it anyway.
Yet where does compassion come in for the trained Martial Artist? In days of old many Martial Masters were also accomplished healers as well. One (off beat) example is a scene from the movie Karate Kid: Miyagi does that "thing" to Daniel's leg so he can continue the tournament.
But compassion is about the willingness to provide aid because it's the "right thing" to do.
Mercy, pity, compassion. Are these not traits that we as Martial Artists should likewise adopt? Chances are our (street) attackers won't be this way or have these attributes/virtues. So should we? Or is it simply call 911 and walk away?
I've had a guy in Washington D.C. "jump" me with intent to take whatever it was I had on me at the time... (little did he know that I was flat broke), I managed to get away from him by using a sword stroke with my hand across their throat. He went down gagging and clutching his throat. I picked up my stuff and continued on down the street. After about a block I turned around because I was wondering ... is that guy gonna live? Can he even breathe? When I saw someone else bending down over him I told myself if the guy is in serious trouble then whomever is bending over him providing help is going to call 911 and I can be well away from here by the time help arrives. T'was a bad neighborhood to begin with but my destination just happens to be in that neighborhood... (don't ask).
I've not felt good about leaving the guy like that, but it would/could've been dangerous for me to linger in the area... a white guy in a predominately black neighborhood with a injured black guy on the ground, possibly dying, thus my own safety was a higher priority to anything (or anyone) else at the time.
Still, it wasn't a good feeling for the rest of the night. I've said it before I don't like hurting people... but will not hesitate to do so if necessary. But now, if I can do so (safely) I'll provide what assistance I can until EMS arrives.
MartialIntent
Black Belt
Personally, if I have been attacked and my attacker has been injured I feel absolutely no compunction whatsoever to administer first aid except to forestall any potential legal action should they deteriorate or die. If someone has attacked me with the intent of physical damage and I am either lucky or skilled enough to put them down period, then well, what's that to me?
I'm having a little trouble with some of the moral aloofness abounding. I live in a place where attacks do happen. If your humanity and brotherly love has the strength to shine through after either yourself or your family have been attacked well more power to you. Morally and ethically, I could care less whether my attacker lives or dies. My only concern would be the subsequent legal implications upon me. This alone may compel me to take some action but certainly nothing would be done through any sense of obligation to this individual - far from it. To that end, I'd agree with the above posts and contact the police once at a safe distance. If an ambulance were deemed necessary, I would not see that as my worry.
I'm having a little trouble with some of the moral aloofness abounding. I live in a place where attacks do happen. If your humanity and brotherly love has the strength to shine through after either yourself or your family have been attacked well more power to you. Morally and ethically, I could care less whether my attacker lives or dies. My only concern would be the subsequent legal implications upon me. This alone may compel me to take some action but certainly nothing would be done through any sense of obligation to this individual - far from it. To that end, I'd agree with the above posts and contact the police once at a safe distance. If an ambulance were deemed necessary, I would not see that as my worry.
beau_safken
Black Belt
Why would I have to be more human for someone that doesn't extend me that same curtiousy?
I believe that I would help them out and at the very least get them some aid. Defending myself from this person would be one thing, not administering aid to someone even if they attacked me first is just not in my morals. What if something happened to him after I walked away and didn't get him any aid? I don't know if I could live with myself knowing I was responsible for ending a life.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Interesting point here. It could feasibly be demonstrated that you legally defended yourself, then as a result of making an error with your first aid, further injured the person thus making you liable. Probably a better idea to call 911.BlackCatBonz said:
The truth of the matter is, ethically I have no problem leaving this hypothetical attacker for dead. He should have thought about that before making a really bad choice. But, the thing has to be reported anyway if you have any hope of defending yourself legally. If you don't report it, and they connect you to the incident, you're hooped. So, likely the 911 operator will ask you if the attacker needs medical attention anyway, and with that, EMS will respond.
still learning
Senior Master
JeffJ said:
Hello, Off course you must give aid...we have no right to take a life..even if they try to take ours.
Common sense gotta play here too. Best to call the police and ambulance, ...Aloha
KenpoTex
Senior Master
We have no right? If we are in fear for our life or safety (or that of someone else) we have the right and, as far as I'm concerned, the obligation to do whatever is necessary to end the threat. If they threaten our life, they've just made theirs forfeit.still learning said:
As far as rendering aid, I have zero compassion for someone that would try to victimize me or someone I was protecting. Calling 911 would be as far as I'd be willing to go. Philosophy aside, trying to administer first-aid would probably put you in a vunerable position. We've already dealt with the threat, why would we place ourselves in a situation where we could be at risk again?
JeffJ said:
Yes, and I have done it. So I know once I bounce their head off the pavement, I will stick a pen in theri mouth to pull their tongue out of the back of their throat.
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, In time of war..we all help all the wounded no matter which side you are on...
a policeman shoots a robber ...does he shoot him again? NO ..call for help and stops the bleeding...gives aid here.
We are not Barbarians....one day you will understand this...compassion?
"Yes" the guy tried to hurt us or kill us...and we injury him badly...still we NEED to help him. Call for 911.
Now if it is a rapist,aductions..I split and tell them help is on the way...and scam....You must survive first before we can call for help.
The world is not fair...but we must use our better judgement here..Aloha
PS: If you were injury badly...would you like that person to help you?
a policeman shoots a robber ...does he shoot him again? NO ..call for help and stops the bleeding...gives aid here.
We are not Barbarians....one day you will understand this...compassion?
"Yes" the guy tried to hurt us or kill us...and we injury him badly...still we NEED to help him. Call for 911.
Now if it is a rapist,aductions..I split and tell them help is on the way...and scam....You must survive first before we can call for help.
The world is not fair...but we must use our better judgement here..Aloha
PS: If you were injury badly...would you like that person to help you?
still learning said:
The problem I see with all of this is that it was the "good" guys that were victorious. So, it is reasonable that they would show compassion and call for help after. This doesn't apply to your PS question. In that scenario the "bad" guy is the victor. I would want them to leave me alone in the first place. If they did hurt you badly (which was their intent, probably) they won't stay around to help you. You would want some bystanders to help you out. For the scumbags like rapists, child molestors, etc.. If they got "dealt with" , so be it!
JeffJ said:
If you are not in danger by doing so (or remaining in the area) and there are not innocents who also need first aide, than, IMO, it would be morally wrong to not assist.
