Here is a hypothetical situation

[Carol]

One may morally and legally in the clear at the time of the fight. One may need the authorties to ensure that one STAYS morally and legally in the clear, and not the subject of a criminal investigation or a liability suit sometime after the fact.

Whether the person needs my aid or not, I would be calling 911. I want all the first responders by my side. Fire fighters are often first on the scene. They have oxygen and strong responders to lift the person out of danger. The police can investigate and give me a report that clears my name. The paramedics can make the determination if medical attention is needed...they are a better judge of it than I am.

The other aspect...disease is risked in a fight, I won't risk it further by not having gloves, etc. to properly treat a person. Plus, my First Aid cert is 20 years out of date. Much better to have the paramedics involved...even if the attacker says s/he is NOT hurt.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

assuming i'm absolutely certain i won't be sucker punched while i'm patching the dude up, and assuming neither me nor mine need patching up ourownselves, i would administer first aid while waiting for the ems guys to show.

 

[Hand Sword]

Morally it is the right thing to do. I was first responder trained at work, and am supposed to do it when called for. The first thing taught is situational awareness. If it is dangerous for you, wait for help. If these scenarios happened at work (which they have, just not when I was there, thank goodness) I would do it. Off site, I like to think I would. I know I would call who was needed, but, I honestly don't know if I would get invovlved. I hope I never have to find out.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Morally it is the right thing to do. I was first responder trained at work, and am supposed to do it when called for. The first thing taught is situational awareness. If it is dangerous for you, wait for help. If these scenarios happened at work (which they have, just not when I was there, thank goodness) I would do it. Off site, I like to think I would. I know I would call who was needed, but, I honestly don't know if I would get invovlved. I hope I never have to find out.

Funny you should mention that. That's what the Coast Guard taught me. Situational awarenes first. A first responder is useless if he/she is incapacitated as a result of jumping in to aid without first ascertaining the situation and environment. Good point.

 

[MartialIntent]

PS: If you were injury badly...would you like that person to help you?

This is a good point - of course we'd want help if we were injured however, we're not the party setting out with the intention of mugging, assaulting or abusing others. We'd be the "innocent" party in this hypothetical situation. I think that's the difference, isn't it?

Respects!

 

[Tony]

I remember I was attacked when I was 17 and I'm certain they woudl ahve left me for dead! had i been more knowledgeable in Martial Arts I woudl have just left them all lying in the floor. Besides if they had been injured someone would have come by and hlped as it was a busy town.

If someone has no qualms about hurting you and leaving you for dead why should i help them! They have brought it on themselves but if you are using self defence you are only allowed to use reasonable force.

 

[Hand Sword]

I agree, if you're attacked like what is being described, and you have to fight, you will do so, ultimately in a way that will allow you to escape (hopefully). You'll be preoccupied with fleeing after the encounter, that you won't think about them, probably.

 

[knifeboy]

If i injured someone I would definitely call 911 so that an ambulance could administer first aid and the police could arrest whomever they think should be arrested.

Even if that means you?

Anyway, i agree with calling 911, but i don't think if someone attacked me i'd be able to give them proper first-aid...

 

[Hand Sword]

Naah.....Probably not.

 

[MartialIntent]

Even if that means you?

Anyway, i agree with calling 911, but i don't think if someone attacked me i'd be able to give them proper first-aid...

Yep, it might be first aid, but not maybe strictly the sort they teach in text books... That'll be the Dim Mak book of first aid applications

Seriously the law treats these assaulters and antisocials with perverse leniency, well isn't this summary justice [and justice in the higher non-legal sense]. I say if someone is gonna play street rules, they have little cause to complain when they get broke [or dead]. However, if it turns out for the worst, the law would be wholly vindicated in treating this as manslaughter which is the only reason for intervention on your attacker's behalf. So think on and dig out that Dim Mak Methods of Resuscitation book...

Respects!

 

[Hand Sword]

Better to be judged by 12......

 

[MartialIntent]

Better to be judged by 12......

No doubt! But it's the leaving-them-for-dead or the lesser leaving-them-as-dead point that if argued well could have the pendulum swing badly against you as the original innocent party don't you think? After all, court cases aren't necessarily about the facts alone but about the clever contortion and manipulation of those facts by slick lawyers.

Whilst one might not care either way whether our attacker lives or dies, it might be a more expedient longer term solution for oneself to err on the side of prudence and bang on a tourniquet or administer CPR or whatever - the moral high-ground can thus be claimed also. Everybody's happy and nobody dies.

Respects!

 

[Hand Sword]

Probably would be prudent, I can't afford a slick lawyer, just a public defender!

 

[KenpoTex]

Hello, In time of war..we all help all the wounded no matter which side you are on...

don't get me started on this one...

We are not Barbarians....one day you will understand this...compassion?

Understand? meaning that I'll change my mind? I highly doubt it.

"Yes" the guy tried to hurt us or kill us...and we injury him badly...still we NEED to help him. Call for 911.

Why???

the world is not fair...but we must use our better judgement here..Aloha

better judgement? My better judgement tells me to get the heck out of there before his 3 buddies show up and get ticked 'cause I just dropped their friend.

PS: If you were injury badly...would you like that person to help you?

Somehow I don't think the "Golden Rule" applies in this situation. If I were injured badly I would appreciate some help. However, I would neither desire nor accept help from the person that just injured me (and if I had been effective, he probably wouldn't be in great shape either).


If someone feels it is their moral duty to render aid to a violent criminal who just threatened their life, so be it. Just don't expect me to do so. I realize that my views on self-defense are a little more extreme than those of many of the people here. As I stated before, I have no compassion for someone who would attack an innocent person. As far as I'm concerned they deserve whatever they get.

As far as the possibility of being held liable for not rendering aid, you could leave the area before you called 911 and just tell the police that you left the area immediately in case your assailant had a weapon or had friends in the vicinity (which is really a pretty good idea anyway).

 

[Bigshadow]

But now, if I can do so (safely) I'll provide what assistance I can until EMS arrives.

I certainly agree. Personal safety comes first, that is why you defended yourself. If it truely isn't safe to be there, then go. But to know it is safe to stay and see to it the person does not die when death is not necessary, is to be the better person.

I believe in "Do only what is necessary, no more, no less." To leave someone to die when not necessary, to me is no different than letting my anger get the best of me and finish them off while they were incapacitated and uable to do anything further.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Even if that means you?

Anyway, i agree with calling 911, but i don't think if someone attacked me i'd be able to give them proper first-aid...

Of course......if I had to defend myself it meant I had no other alternative, I am completely willing to defend my actions in a court of law. Being the person that injured them enough to need first aid and also being a first aider, there seems to be somewhat of a conflict in administering it.

Beau Safken stated, "
Why would I have to be more human for someone that doesn't extend me that same curtiousy?"

I think it boils down to owning up to your actions.......just because someone acted like an *** and had their butt handed to them......doesnt give you license to act like one too.

 

[fireman00]

If you injured someone who attacked you and seriously injured him/her, would you feel it necessary to provide first aide?

For the sake of this discussion, lets assume you are morally and legally in the clear.

Jeff

Does the person have AIDS or Hepatits A, B or C? Would I have gloves, mask and eye protection?

My feeling is that you should call 911 and let trained personnel take care of them.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Very good points here! For myself...after sitution awareness(good to always remember this-thanks guys for bringing this up).

I will call 911 and give aid especially for shock prevention. The fight is over, time to heal-both sides,mentally and physcially.

To keep on hating and wanting to destroy in your mine will make you..? worst off. Terrorist are good at this mode of thinking.

It is over and done with...pick yourself up..be a good human being. Move on...Your life will be better for it....

Realize the other person does not know right from wrong...you do...think about it....

If it was your son/daughter badly injury... the other person who did this can help...this is good... would you agree on this? ......Aloha

 

[scottcatchot]

You'll be preoccupied with fleeing after the encounter, that you won't think about them, probably.

I think this is a good point. If i just finished fighting off an attack, my mind will be more preoccupied with getting myself to safety and watching for other attackers. I may use a cell phone as I am leaving to notify 911 of the attack on ME and where they can find whats left of the guy. I think it is important to help people and render aid, but in this senario, I think i will be more concerned with getting myself and whomever is with me to safety more than pausing to evaluate how bad I may or maynot have hurt the guy

 

[thescottishdude]

Like alot of things about self-defense it really depends on context. I'm also a very forgiving person usually so if I really hurt someone I would call 911.

i.e. I took his knife off him and stabbed the attacker I'd call 911 so he didn't die. But if I smacked him about abit with my fists and he's bleeding then no, concusion is the least he deserves.

I think the real question is - Do you trust the police? I'd trust them to have ago at arresting me. In the UK I don't think the police care that it was self-defense they just lock up both fighters.