Is it more effective to hit the knees lower legs of opponent when I do stick fight with a cane in self defense?

[Alan0354]

I see the confusion.... you are correct.... he is swing from right to left.... because he is on the right side of the picture swinging at a target on the left side of the picture.

Watch his hands when he draws back, they only go to 3 places... above his right shoulder, above his head and above his left shoulder. Watch the tip of his stick when it is back ready for the strike.... it is on the rear center line. So, when his hands are above his head, the stick is straight back along the centerline, when his hands are over a shoulder, there is a slight angle, but the tip is still on the centerline behind him. His swing then comes down to put the tip on the centerline. When it comes over his shoulder, there is a bit of angle on it, but it is still within the width of his shoulders, which are not 3 feet wide. He slides his whole body side to side, to get the angle of cut he wants on the target and to get the distance he wants on the target. He is not swinging a baseball bat, he is not over extending his reach to break his posture. He does not jump back as he swings, of bend forward when he swings. His swings are very tight and controlled and all within the width of his shoulders.


Only if you can see what is really happening in the video... somehow you seem to be seeing wild baseball bat swinging when there is not any of that in the video....

Take a video in a 3ft wide space!!!

This is a video I did like 4 years ago when I first started. I think I am a lot better now particular hitting lower body and also foot work is a lot better. I am not an expert, BUT I don't mind showing what I did. I still swing a little wide at the time, just a little forward. Still not using heel and waste that well. I wish I recover a little bit more and I can make new video. Remember I was 69 when making this video, not a young kid.

 

[Alan0354]

Here is a video of my kick boxing practice when I was 69 also. Very simple, nothing fancy, just concentrating on penetration when punching. I have to stuff both the 70lbs and 100lbs bags so they get penetrate too much as I broke quite a few in the pass and I am tired of keep buying new ones. So you don't see as much penetration by the fist.

Again, I am not an expert, not a master, just consistently practice as aerobics, about 20mins to 25mins/day, try to get 4 to 5 days a week as aerobics. I don't mind showing my videos even if people laugh at me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

My thinking is to concentrate on swinging to the knee and lower legs of the opponent. It should be much harder to defend the stick when hitting lower.

It's more important to hit your opponent's wrist instead. If you can force your opponent to drop his weapon, you will be safe.

In this video, there are a lot of sword skill that aiming toward your opponent' wrist. At 0.50 - 0.52 to use your wrist to make a large circle while the tip of your sword only make a small circle (trying to cut your opponent's wrist) is an important sword skill.

 

[HighKick]

As the title, I have been practicing 2 hand stick fight using a 22oz heavy cane. My thinking is to concentrate on swinging to the knee and lower legs of the opponent. It should be much harder to defend the stick when hitting lower. Just want to hear from others.

Thanks

22oz. isn't super heavy but it would depend on whether it is a balanced cane or if the weight is on the tip. If on the tip, the length would create a moment arm to help generate force, lessening the need for raw speed but also increasing the need for grip strength. This is were grip drills like dropping/grabbing the ball are so important.
As others have said, a bent knee has much more structure and is harder to 'hurt' or move. The tendons/ligaments on the side can be a better target for a lighter/smaller strike like a cane. Unless the leg is still heavily loaded, a bent knee is a much more flexible and safer structure.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

When you use cold weapon, unless you intend to die with your opponent at the same time (your opponent cuts your head off, at the same time you cut his body in half), usually you should concern your own safety first. The best strategy is to use your sword to press your opponent's sword away from you when you cut him. This way, your offense and defense are integrate into 1 move.

Here is one example of "safe attack".

 

[Alan0354]

22oz. isn't super heavy but it would depend on whether it is a balanced cane or if the weight is on the tip. If on the tip, the length would create a moment arm to help generate force, lessening the need for raw speed but also increasing the need for grip strength. This is were grip drills like dropping/grabbing the ball are so important.
As others have said, a bent knee has much more structure and is harder to 'hurt' or move. The tendons/ligaments on the side can be a better target for a lighter/smaller strike like a cane. Unless the leg is still heavily loaded, a bent knee is a much more flexible and safer structure.

Thanks

You mean I should bend my knees a little to strike and punch? Yes, I am practicing more with bent knees. Don't know why in my days of kick boxing, the teacher taught us standing straight.

 

[Alan0354]

When you use cold weapon, unless you intend to die with your opponent at the same time (your opponent cuts your head off, at the same time you cut his body in half), usually you should concern your own safety first. The best strategy is to use your sword to press your opponent's sword away from you when you cut him. This way, your offense and defense are integrate into 1 move.

Here is one example of "safe attack".

Yes, I learned that. Problem is to do that, I need a partner to practice. I am practicing on my own, too old to go to a school. I just stay with the simplest way of doing things. I practice hitting the knees then to the head and back to the knees to make it hard to predict.

Remember, this is as much aerobics as self defense. I hate running, this is at least equivalent to joking. That's all it is together with weight training.

I checked the weight of my canes. I was practicing with a 28oz cane for a while, I just reduce to a 24oz the last 2 weeks because I discover I can strike faster. I don't put weight on the tip as it's illegal in Kalif.

Thanks

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

You mean I should bend my knees a little to strike and punch? Yes, I am practicing more with bent knees. Don't know why in my days of kick boxing, the teacher taught us standing straight.

High stance uses less energy than low stance does. This is why in Taiji training, young people use low stance and old people use high stance.

I set my weave master so low that I have to bend my knees to punch it. This way I can force myself to train in low stance.

Nice video. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

I hate running, this is at least equivalent to joking. That's all it is together with weight training.

We just can't run forever. Soon or later, we have to stop running to protect our knees.

 

[HighKick]

Thanks

You mean I should bend my knees a little to strike and punch? Yes, I am practicing more with bent knees. Don't know why in my days of kick boxing, the teacher taught us standing straight.

I do not know the specifics of you style, but do you practice triangle footwork? You need some slight knee bend for mobility, but the body should be mostly straight since you have the reach of the cane. Your teacher may be referring to situational training such as casual standing/walking.

 

[Alan0354]

I do not know the specifics of you style, but do you practice triangle footwork? You need some slight knee bend for mobility, but the body should be mostly straight since you have the reach of the cane. Your teacher may be referring to situational training such as casual standing/walking.

Officially, my kickboxing school is Taekwondo, but my teacher really concentrate on kick boxing. It was in mid 80s where influence of Bruce Lee is very deep. We did a lot of work in pairs one holding a bag and the other kick and punch. Not only it work on striking, the one holding the the bag got used to the punching force and take the beating. We also do a lot of sparing. We only practice forms before the belt test.

Even the forms involve standing straight. This is the Taegeuk 1 form:

I forgot to reply you on hand strength. I do weight training. This is only considered as aerobics. I spend 60% of my workout on weights. I can do 90 pushup fast in a little bit over 2mins, curl 40lbs dumbbells, doing pulldowns. I do a lot of pulling exercise, never feel hands are my weak spot. I do 50 situps one set at least 5 times a week. Sometimes I use gripper for hands, but I just don't feel it helps much.

Thanks

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The shin would probably suck.

Just reading that made me wince.

 

[Alan0354]

I do not know the specifics of you style, but do you practice triangle footwork? You need some slight knee bend for mobility, but the body should be mostly straight since you have the reach of the cane. Your teacher may be referring to situational training such as casual standing/walking.

I experimented with slight knee bending, it WORKS for stick fight, it's good, I am going to practice that.

BUT, it really doesn't work for punching. Not that it doesn't give more stability, I am SHORT, 5"5" and shrinking. I need to stand straight to hit the face of a 6' person!!!! I lose reach and lose penetration if I punch up steep.

One thing most of the MA is they punch at shoulder level. It's so easy to get penetration as it goes straight. Try punching to eye level is a completely different thing. In my video that was recorded a few years back, I just started punching at my forehead level, I can see the penetration is not as good, the bag started shaking. Not like when I punch lower, the bag doesn't swing, just more penetration. I am getting a lot better punching high as it's been a few years since. But the way of punching is a little different, I have to raise my elbow higher so my punch can still attack at complete horizontal to get the max penetration into the bag.

With practice punching bare knuckles on 6x6 wood pole, I expect to snap the person's head back if I land a high punch to the face, nose or eye.

You asked whether I practice triangle foot movement, I practice stepping left, right after attack, step forward to attack, then step back.

 

[Alan0354]

I do not know the specifics of you style, but do you practice triangle footwork? You need some slight knee bend for mobility, but the body should be mostly straight since you have the reach of the cane. Your teacher may be referring to situational training such as casual standing/walking.

Actually after reading your comment, I was actually thinking how can I bend knees and still punching high. I came up with an idea and I tried it this morning it can work.

What I do is when I step in and punch to the tall guy's face, I stand straight up. But after the first punch, I bend my knees to punch to the body, then stand straight to finish high. I want to make it hard to predict by going high low high, hopefully when I punch high, he raise his hands to block and open up the stomach for me to go low. Then when he try to block low, he'll open up his face and I go high again.

The best thing is my head goes up and down and make it hard for the guy to hit my head.

I really think this is going to work. That's the good thing about not STUCK with one style and follow them blindly. I am open for common sense to think about what is the best.

 

[Alan0354]

I read up the history of TKD Taegeuk forms. They developed them in late 60s to early 70s:
Taegeuk (taekwondo) - Wikipedia

I wonder about the reason they developed the new forms. Could it be from the Korea War in the 50s, they realized how tall and big the Americans are, so they need to develop punching high standing straight, then punch low to the body!!!

I did not have my mind set on TKD when I was looking for a school in 83. I just look at their classes, I looked and CMA and all that, I just don't like it because they are very set on their style, like they have to do tiger craw or goose beak and all that. When I went to my teacher's class and look, They did sets of air kicks for warmup, then students work in pairs, one hold a big cushion and the other punch and kick in particular ways, then exchanged. Then sparing. I was so impressed I joined. Kickboxing was very new at the time, MMA did not exist.

My teacher even invited Japanese Jujitsu instructor to teach the class once a while. There goes to show how much foresight and open minded he had. He want us to learn as much as we can rather insisting us to stay with traditional TKD. That's in the mid 80s!!!! Too bad none of us took it seriously on the Jujitsu, it's foreign to us at the time. Nobody really stop and practice after the class.

 

[Alan0354]

Just saw this on Facebook. That's the reason I switched to 2 hands with heavier stick. I saw another one pretty much like this at the time, but this one is just as good. THESE ARE REAL COMPETITION AND THEY REALLY HIT. How many times they landed on the ribs and all, they just keep on fighting.

So do NOT tell me one hand with rattan cane is just as good. It's so easy to talk, to defend the certain style. SEEING IS BELIEVING.

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