Have You Begun to Realize it May be Time to....

[chinto01]

Hello again all. I would like to share this with you so I can have your input. About 5 years ago I had knee surgery to fix a problem that was incurred through the years of martial arts training as well as an injury when I was a child. The doctor then asked me to stop sparring which I did. At the beginning of this year I began to spar again and reaggrevated the knee. Another trip to the doctor made me realize that he was once again serious when he asked me not to spar. Being as bull headed as I am I blew him off and have been sparring here and there again. Last night however I think will be it. After a good night of friendly sparring I went home and settled into bed. During the evening I got up tp get a glass of water and had a hard time walking down the hall because my knee was so swollen and thought to myself you are only 34 and hobbling like you are 85. Needless to say after the glass of water I made my mind up that that is it. It is time to hang up the gear.

Now sparring is by NO MEANS my only form of training. I am very content doing kata, bunkai and the other aspects of my art but my concerns are what the students will think. How can you teach sparring if they never see me in the ring anymore and where will my credibility be with the new students as far as sparring. This has been the motivating factor in me sparring all along. Any thoughts???

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Ceicei]

Well, my instructor had a very nasty detached retina as a result of a sparring accident that ended up with three surgeries to repair it. He no longer spars, but he does have other instructors under him that can and will do sparring. He still coaches sparring even though he doesn't spar. Our school never had a high emphasis on sparring; we do recognize sparring as a valuable training tool.

If you have others in your school who are good at sparring, make use of them to show others in your school and you can continue to coach.

- Ceicei

 

[TigerWoman]

What is the problem with your knee? Do you have a missing ACL or was your cartilage torn and taken out? Or is there a bone structure problem?

I have had meniscal tears in my cartilage both sides. I have to keep the side ligaments fairly tight (not loosen with stretching) and I have to wear a Shields brace which is pretty comfortable but has a metal insert on the sides and a rubber thingy around the side and under my patella. I also do alot of knee exercises to keep the VM inner quad muscle stronger so the other 3 don't pull my knee out of joint--went to a therapist who put me on several exercises. I had an MRI and there is little if any cartilage left and my left knee has a divot in the lower bone of the leg. However I take Glucosamine Sulfate to renew cartilage, keep it feeling great-takes 3 mos. to get in your system. I also take MSM which reduces inflammation. After a harder workout on my knees now, I ice them with filled dixie cups which I keep in the freezer--rotating around the knee until it is numb. Before a workout I take one Advil and if I feel pain through that I cool it and stop even skipping. Glucosamine and Advil can't be taken at the same time as they conflict, the Glucosamine doesn't get absorbed so I take that early in the morning and after dinner. My workout is at noon usually. I walk at least an hour with my two dogs-separately-daily too and do a kickboxing class.

So all of this is from 20 years of running on asphalt mostly and ten years of jumping in TKD, plus the fact that I'm 56. So I limit what I do, I jump a little and I mean a little. I spar but don't do much jumping. I do forget myself but the next day I'm reminded that I overdid it. I can't afford to wreck my knees further but for the last year or so they have remained the same. Exercise is important to keep joints healthy but we have to moderate it if we have injured something. I love TKD too much to just quit it. My orthopedist told me to keep doing it--he wish he could--so go figure. I know one woman has a missing ACL and just tested for recommended black belt with it. Just use common sense and be kind to your knee. I would talk to your doctor again or an orthopedist and find out exactly are your perameters, what your injury is, how to strengthen your knee etc. Maybe need a brace. Ice your knee after your workout--ice is better than a cold pack--more direct. Take glucosamine/MSM, it can't hurt your and I couldn't have done TKD the last 8 years without it--I tried dropping it once.

Oh and my instructor about 45, is great at sparring but seldom does it anymore, just shows bits and pieces. That would be enough for any instructor so you could get by just fine. TW

 

[Makalakumu]

Have you thought about modifying your sparring? You don't have to do full blown bogu kumite...

And sometimes light contact gets certain principles across just fine.

 

[evenflow1121]

My instructor had a long history of injuries as a result of the ring and could not spar either. However, no one questioned his ability, his reputation spoke for itself, I am sure in your case it will be the same =)

If I was in your shoes, I would stop sparring as well. You dont want to hurt yourself even further, thats most important.

 

[Robert Lee]

First you could not use that leg for any kicking in your spars. And adpt your pivit on it to allow better support. I like manyt others have has knee problems from M/A training. i was told all I could do was walk ride a bike and swim. No more M/A at all That was in 1986 20 years ago. I had been in the M/A at that time about 14 years now about 34 years. And have a problem now and agin. But use kicks that do not over all create a problem with that knee. Each person has to decide what path they take on there needs. But i would look at the options and you sure might find away to still spar and protect your knee.

 

[Gemini]

Though being in there with the students is a plus, it isn't necessary. If your students feel what you're telling them makes sense and see their self improvement, they're going to listen to you whether your direction comes from the mat or the sidelines. It sounds like you'll still be able to show the occasional example for a student who isn't getting it, and that shoud be enough. I know many instructors in your position. If your teaching is competent, they'll still learn.

 

[chinto01]

Thanks all for your replies. They all fall in line with the way I was thinking and I just needed a second opinion. My injury had to do with a slight tear of the ACl, some bone spurs on the ball of the knee from the childhood injury, and some what they called "loose antibodies" floating around causing some really uncomfortable grinding. Anyhow thanks again and I look forward to my new adventure!

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[TigerWoman]

I'm not a doc but it seems to me that the slight tear of the ACL is what could get worse. That could get worse from a mistep on a curb too. Is it reparable? That's the big question. At your age, I probably would look into that as you might be able to repair your knee 100%. Me, I probably will need a knee replacement as no cartilage = no cartilage.

And they could also clean up all the bone spurs and suck out all the pieces as well which is probably causing the inflammation and your inability to spar much and walk the next day. I've heard of both of these kind of surgeries, the latter usually is arthroscopic. You might have to have an assistant in the dojang doing your directions but hey, everyone gets side lined once in a while. And the guys in football and basketball do it all the time. TW

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have known a few instructors that no longer sparred for reasons of their own but most of them could instruct verry well and if you listened and did what they said you sparrd better and corrected your mistakes.

 

[chinto01]

I'm not a doc but it seems to me that the slight tear of the ACL is what could get worse. That could get worse from a mistep on a curb too. Is it reparable? That's the big question. At your age, I probably would look into that as you might be able to repair your knee 100%. Me, I probably will need a knee replacement as no cartilage = no cartilage.

And they could also clean up all the bone spurs and suck out all the pieces as well which is probably causing the inflammation and your inability to spar much and walk the next day. I've heard of both of these kind of surgeries, the latter usually is arthroscopic. You might have to have an assistant in the dojang doing your directions but hey, everyone gets side lined once in a while. And the guys in football and basketball do it all the time. TW

These are the problems that were fixed five years ago that the doctor keeps warning me against. He said I was lucky the first time but next time I will not be so lucky which is why I have been taking it easy.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[Lisa]

I think giving up something that we absolutely love to do is an incredibly hard thing to do but in the long run, listening to our bodies so that we can continue to enjoy other things in our lives is much more important. If you ignore your bodies warning signs the problems you have in one area will creep into the rest of your life.

Right now Chinto seems to understand that sparring just can't be done anymore. Before it effects other aspects of your life, like quality time with family outside of MA, you have decided that it is time to back off and slow down.

Kudos to you for understanding that you are not infallable.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I don't spar as often as i did when I was 20 and i dont spar with the same force as i did back then. If I have to I will but it be more of a fight then sparring.
My body as achs and pains now that it did not when I was younger and I don't do those flashy kicks and fly all over the place but I stalk keep my kicks below the belt (most of the time) and tend to do more takedowns and other things than i used to. I guess you could say I have changed the way i spar to go with my learning and my body abilities

 

[still learning]

Hello, As an Instructor...you can still be their coach! Most professional coaches are not the best players(age ,injuries and so on)...but great at getting others to perform better and beyond.

There is an Sensi who was hit by a car...damage his hips....walks with a limp. Loves to teach...painful at times....but is great leader and teacher for his students. They have sparring tournments..coaches and referee's.

Martials arts is in you....knees...it happens to many of us..sometimes worst things too.....except the fact...you will need to cut back....physcial things. But the learning and teaching will go on!! ........Aloha

 

[Carol]

Chinto, I started MA at 36.

It's been an...experience. I haven't been injured doing my art, but I've been injured outside of my art. Plus, I've battled some health problems on and off for a long time. (And, I'm winning....bwaaaahaaahaaa!!!)

My take...you only have one body. Do everything you can with it....BUT....don't risk it.

The owner of my school has been permanently injured (unrelated to MA). He adapts his teaching style around his injury. If you do what you can do, and don't do what you can't (or shouldn't) do...the arts can still be a part of your life...if you want.

 

[Mcura]

One of my instructors blew both his knees out. The first was a result of landing in a ditch or gopher hole during a night jump (he was training to be a paratrooper). Well, he compensated by limping on the other leg so much, he blew that knee out, too. To this day, he still wears knee braces to keep his legs from buckling in hard practice.

However, that hasn't stopped him from being very handy with a sword. His fighting style is patience, patience, and patience. He simply acts as a compass, allowing his opponent to orbit around his pointed threat, and at their first mistake, he'll deliver a telling blow, disarm him, and then lecture him as to how he did it.

Oh sure, he'll grapple, and lever his weapon/s to throw you on your pointy li'l head if you make him. He's just fully aware of what his capabilities are and how to maximize his remaining, and considerable, assets.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

stop sparring and talk to a physical therapist.

the trouble with all us stubborn, macho dudes (including me) is we keep pushing through the pain. trouble is, if we backed off for a few weeks we'd avoid the injury that takes us out for a few months or years.

physical therapy is amazing these days. see what you can do to fix yourself up and allow the injury to heal.

doing this might mean being able to spar again in a while. by now, as a martial artist you certainly have the patience to wait.

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm sorry that one part of your MA career may be over. But I'm glad you see a lot of wonderful possibilties for yourself.:asian:

 

[WingChun Lawyer]

Have you considered changing your sparring methods, rules and frequency?

In your place I would talk to the doctor and ask about the actual causes of your problem, so that you know what are your actual limitations.

I mean, "don´t spar" is a bit too generic, isn´t it? Sparring consists of a whole bunch of physical activities, and I suppose many of them do not harm your knee.

Maybe you should limit the frequency of your sparring - perhaps a couple of rounds a month is the best your body can handle. That´s much better than nothing!

Or perhaps you should avoid kicking. Well, just box and grapple, them.

Mind you, I am no doctor, I am just throwing ideas at you. But your doctor is probably not a fighter himself, so it is easier for him to say "don´t spar", when he sees the state of your knee after a sparring night, than to actually explain to you what you can and cannot do with your knee, so you will learn how to live with them without giving up an important part of your life.

In my experience, doctors are a bit too much cautious. In your place I would ask the right questions, then experiment a bit to see what I can an cannot do.

Good luck!

 

[chinto01]

Thanks again all for your responses. The doctor that did the surgery on my knee 5 years ago is well respected in the sports medicine field and has done surgery on many, many athletes. This is why I chose him. Believe it or not I am comfortable with my decision. After all he can only recommend which is what he did strongly. When I look at my training I want to be more like my Sensei. 82 and still teaching class every day. I will not be able to do that by continuing to abuse my knee in the fashion I have been. After all this is a life long right?

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob