Has race ever been made into an issue for you?

[Guardian]

Never played a part in my training, but then again, 95% of my training came during my military days and I/we didn't stand for that nonsense, at least not in any unit I was part of.

 

[Kacey]

Race? Not specifically, no... although I have gotten "Really? You don't look like a black belt" on occasion - further questioning about what a black belt looks like would lead to one of 2 descriptions: either I should be 6' or taller, male, and muscular, or I should be about 5'5", Asian and male... either way, the determining factor was gender, not race. Race has never been an issue for me, nor for any of the instructors I know, although the occasional student has made comments - at which student was corrected, and changed his/her attitude, or was asked to not return, as such attitudes are not appropriate for training.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Never seen an issue with race specifically, but strange attitudes when it comes to Nationality.

In the JSA, I’ve seen people put more credence into a 4th Dan who trained at sometime in their career in Japan for six months, then a local 6th Dan. Or put more value in a Japanese 4th Dan, and almost ignore North American 7th Dan’s.

I had a friend go to school in the States, and was always picked first for pickup hockey games, because he was from Canada….he never played hockey in his life, but because he was Canadian……

 

[MA-Caver]

One of my earliest MA-instructors was a Brown-belt in some form of Karate... I cannot remember which one... (please remember that all my MA-training was informal/non-dojo), but he spent many months with me teaching me what he knew and having me do drills with him... helping him as his uke while teaching me lower belt(s) techniques. He was a co-worker... he was also a good friend (not close but well, you know)... he was also black.

No, race has never been an issue when it came to my training ... or anything else for that matter these days.
In fact couple of the single girls at work are flirting back, I might even ask one of them out pretty soon ... one of them is just as black as my friend that got me started on my path so long ago. :idunno: These days I don't see any differences, they're attractive, they're adults, they're women... so?

Why would a person's skin pigment being different than yours make ANY difference at all in their ability to teach you the art you wish to learn? What would their nationality have to do with it? People used to think that only Chinese could teach REAL Martial Arts. I hope everyone knows what a crock of crap that cliche is these days.

If you get a different race/nationality from you giving you an attitude about/whenever they teach you or you ask them to teach you... well, if it were me... I'd rethink it over and see if I can't find anyone else. If you can't then how you deal with it is how you deal with it. Hopefully you'll win them over and they'll be glad they decided to teach you. And maybe you'll knock away some of their own predjuice along the way.

 

[elder999]

The Female instructor thread by DoubleZ711, got me to wondering if has race ever been made an issue for anyone else when it came to training?

Yes.

Specifically, have you ever been told not to concern yourself with a particular art, because there was already an art from your ethnic background that you could be involved with?

No.


I did have some interesting interactions as a black man in Japan for a year, more than 30 years ago-they were more cultural than training related, though-but there were some training related ones as well. I also had some interesting interactions in New York, with dojos that were almost completely if not completely black-since I trained in ones that were way more diverse, but mostly white-again, more of a cultural thing than a training related thing......for the most part, people look at a person who is training as a fellow student, and don't tend to see race first, or even second. On the other hand, with the Japanese, not being Japanese was always something of an undercurrent, in everything you did-not just martial arts......

 

[Carol]

.Not directly, but I do know a Filipina lady that loooves TKD. One time I went over to her part of the state for a festival, and happened to run in to someone I met at an FMA seminar. Later, when I ran in to that person again, my Filipina friend came up in conversation and he mentioned that he was surprised that she was training in TKD and not the FMAs.

Um...what? I'm Scandinavian, but I sure as hell don't know any Glima. :idunno:

Although, considering my propensity for lifting heavy things...perhaps I should at least consider training with a warhammer. :lol:

 

[Ronin74]

Although, considering my propensity for lifting heavy things...perhaps I should at least consider training with a warhammer. :lol:

Good one.

Here's an irony I forgot to mention- this instructor also taught FMA, was not Filipino, so it bewildered (and disturbed) me to wonder how that opinion could have been formed.

On the opposite, and more positive side of things, I had been reading about Andy Hug's (1964-2000) life as a fighter, and despite having been born in Switzerland, he was one of the more beloved modern fighters in Japan, with K-1 founder Kazuyoshi Ishii going so far as to give him the honorary title of "samurai".

It's beginning to sound like this isn't a common trend, though I have heard others make the similar opinion on FMAs should be taught by Filipinos, etc, so it's a little encouraging.

 

[tellner]

The Female instructor thread by DoubleZ711, got me to wondering if has race ever been made an issue for anyone else when it came to training? Specifically, have you ever been told not to concern yourself with a particular art, because there was already an art from your ethnic background that you could be involved with?

Not exactly. But I have been told that "We've got no place for Jews here" from instructors who assumed I was Christian and had teachers refer to Black people as "spear chuckers" and "******s". I've been in schools (briefly) where "chick fighters" got nothing but scorn and women were relegated to teaching the kid's class no matter that they were there as regular students. I've seen incredible racism on the part of Japanese, Korean and Chinese instructors and on the part of national organizations. The deservedly-renowned Guru Cliff Stewart told me about the real origin of the Black Karate Federation (also cf. Men of Steel Discipline).

Screw 'em all. And I'll be happy to say it to their faces.

 

[chinto]

no it has not been.

 

[Ninebird8]

I have been fortunate and would like to address our colleague here. First, I have trained in kung fu and tai chi for a long time and have three masters: one is Chinese in NYC, one is black in Dallas/Las Vegas, and one is white here in Houston. I wanted their knowledge, their wisdom, etc. and never even thought about the issue here. Secondly, being Jewish, no one has ever tried to persuade me to learn Krav Maga, though aspects of it are very interesting to me, especially the historical context from which it was developed, bascially as part of a nation's survival, especially with the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence force. Thirdly, one of my two ex wives is Filipino, and I have two half Asian kids as a result. My son learned kung fu, and I learned espada y espada and some kali from my now ex-wife, who learned both secretly from her mother since they were both originally from Bisayan, a province in the PI reknowned for female knife fighters. And, as a last comment, I competed for almost 20 years, have judged for over 10 years, and I have martial arts friends all over the country of all races. I find martial arts to be, like the military, the great mixer of society. As long as you are dedicated, loyal, honorable, and love the arts, no one cares. Those qualities I just listed know no race!!!

With respect and honor.

 

[Grenadier]

Somewhat funny situation...

One of the students (a caucasian girl) was asking me for help, regarding getting heckled and teased for learning Karate. She said that various kids would come up to her and start making pitiful attempts at imitating Bruce Lee. She asked me how it should be dealt with, since it was unpleasant to hear those kinds of things from her classmates.

I told her to leave them be, that unless they actually make physical contact, that she shouldn't be interacting with them in any way.

She then started grumbling about how I wouldn't understand, since I wasn't there, but then she caught herself in mid-sentence, suddenly realizing that her remarks were invalid. After all, I'm of Korean descent (two Korean parents, born in the USA), and she realized that I got that kind of treatment without having any association to the martial arts.

Since then, she has pretty much stopped letting those kids bother her. I do feel sorry for the first kid who lays a hand on her, since she can flat-out deliver a very powerful punch.

I've seen incredible racism on the part of Japanese, Korean and Chinese instructors and on the part of national organizations.

Interesting... I've seen the same thing from a few Korean instructors of various Korean martial arts, although most of it only shows up after they find out that I'm a sandan in a Japanese Karate system.

Most of it comes in the form of scorn, a few grumbles about how I've strayed away from my own race.

The funny thing is, though, that I've never had any instructor of Japanese or Okinawan descent make any negative comment about my Korean heritage.

 

[blindsage]

I got into a discussion about MA with my older step-brother a couple years ago, who otherwise you wouldn't expect anything remotely biased from, but he made kind of a big deal that since we're white then we should practice styles like medieval sword fighting (which he does) since it is part of our heritage, and that he wouldn't study any other MAs because he'd rather invest in resurrecting and retaining our cultural heritage. I respect this in general if that's your thing, but the attitude he had when talking about it implied he looked down on white people studying other MAs.

My Kyokushin teachers weren't actually part of the Kyokushin organization anymore when I studied with them. They had left the organization years earlier partially because of the subtle and sometimes overt racism the Japanese teachers had towards the American students. This seems to me to have passed for the most part within that system, and all it's splinter groups, from my outside observations. Though I could be wrong.

 

[qwksilver61]

No,but I did experience a kind of shut out at a seminar that I attended once when I was younger.The "paying" people received more personal one on one instruction.The lower level students were left out on their own.Bad,sloppy techniques.I didn't dare take the initiative to help correct their mistakes,especially at Sifu's seminar.They paid big money like the rest of us,but received very little quality training. I took it personal.To me it's just as bad as someone being racist.

 

[ShelleyK]

Hmmm I havent really had any issues with me being 1/2 Filipino and 1/2 "white" while in training.....but outside of training my friends (mostly white ones) would say, "well it comes easy to you, its in your blood" I do take offense at that because TKD is NOT in my blood, nor is any other martial arts styles that I am aware of. At the same time though these same friends also fully support my endeavor to reach my BB, but also say stupid things like, "Im not gonna mess with you or you'll go all Kung Phooey on me" LOL thats funny in a way but come on....

 

[Omar B]

Yeah, I've had some interesting (read:bad) experiences with race. My dad's Indian, my mother's black and white but I'm fairly dark. I've lived all over the world and never had an issue with race till I lived here in the US. The first time was some kick at a gas station who called my dad (a well known around the world metallurgist) "Boy." That was a shock.

My first high school job out on Long Island NY I worked at a golf club as a bag room attendant, basically taking the members stuff and giving it back to them when they return from their game. Some things turned up missing from bags and I got dirty looks and called the n-word all over the place till I eventually left. It was then discovered that it was not me but these 2 guys from Penn State working there over the summer (stuff was found in their room). The clubhouse boss called me and asked me to come back but I didn't go, how could I go back to work at a place where I was a criminal simply because of my color?

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

I had a Vietnamese Kung Fu / Kung Tao instructor who taught a "closed class" as part of his general club but only to Asians (but no Chinese were allowed). Then again he was recruiter for the Tongs, so it was probably more a "business operations" thing than a racist thing.

 

[Cirdan]

Well I am a Norwegian but since i could not afford chainmail, warhammer, shield and a longship I had to settle for Karate :waah:

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

Well I am a Norwegian but since i could not afford chainmail, warhammer, shield and a longship I had to settle for Karate :waah:

That's alright. Samurai beat Vikings anyway. :uhyeah:

 

[Cirdan]

That's alright. Samurai beat Vikings anyway. :uhyeah:

Pah! I am pretty sure that test did not include a Viking in berzerker rage having consumed poisonous green flea mushroms. They are invulnerable to both steel and fire you know!

 

[shihansmurf]

I have recently taken my first Asian student. Nothing special about that in and of itself, really but he annd I decided to practice at the park a few days ago in sweats instead of gi. During our kata training we had four people come up to us to ask questions and all of them made the assumption that my friend was the instructor. Now this is in spite of the fact that I was doing the kata along with him with the resultant skill gap between us readily apparent, stopping periodicaly to correct his movements, and overall engaging him in every way as the teacher in the teacher/student relationship. I guess since I'm a white guy I must be the one learning karate from the Asian guy.

We both found it darkly funny, although we did note that the two people that approached us when we were sparring didn't make that same error. So either I live in a town full of closet racists or I spar a hell of a lot better than I do kata

Thats the closest I think I've ever come to real racism in the martial arts world, at least that directly impacted me. I wouldn't tolerate that crap in my school, or in reference to my students, for a second.

Mark