Gun or Knife?
- Thread starter Les
- Start date
S
SingingTiger
Guest
If the possibility of increasing distance exists (which isn't clear when discussing a conflict that is only described as "unavoidable"), I'd take the knife every time. Both weapons are lethal at close range, but if I can increase the distance between myself and a knife I gain the advantage (since experts at knife-throwing are a rare breed), whereas if I increase the distance between myself and a gun my opponent gains the advantage. Whether or not I would choose to increase the distance would, of course, be dictated by environment, but the mere fact that doing so would be advantageous for a knife attack and disadvantageous for a gun attack leads me to a preference for a knife attack, all other things being equal.
Rich
Rich
Brother John
Senior Master
I'd rather face a knife than a gun.
The reason?
Survival statistics.
More people survive knife attacks than those that survive gun attacks.
I'd rather not have to do either, but if I get to pick...knife.
UNLESS youre talking about Mr. Mills being the weilder. THEN I think I'd die either way and would prefer his speed drawing skills to put me out QUICK!!!
OK, now I'm depressed...
:wah:
gonna go hug my kids.
Your Brother
John
The reason?
Survival statistics.
More people survive knife attacks than those that survive gun attacks.
I'd rather not have to do either, but if I get to pick...knife.
UNLESS youre talking about Mr. Mills being the weilder. THEN I think I'd die either way and would prefer his speed drawing skills to put me out QUICK!!!
OK, now I'm depressed...
:wah:
gonna go hug my kids.
Your Brother
John
Yari
Master Black Belt
The gun, if it's not loaded :rofl:
No really. It would have to be the knife. Trying to control a gun, that can go off, and shoot yourself or somebody nearby ( a loved one maybe?) is hard.
The knife I think I stand a chance to control, and as said before if the possibility to keep distance is there that's in favour of defending against a knife.
Why would you want an answer on this question?
/Yari
No really. It would have to be the knife. Trying to control a gun, that can go off, and shoot yourself or somebody nearby ( a loved one maybe?) is hard.
The knife I think I stand a chance to control, and as said before if the possibility to keep distance is there that's in favour of defending against a knife.
Why would you want an answer on this question?
/Yari
True2Kenpo
Purple Belt
I believe Rich brought up the key idea that would make or break my decision, distance.
If I was able to create reasonable distance between myself and my attacker, I think I would rather have them weild a knife. An attacker holding a gun at a good distance can really not be defended.
If the attacker was right on me I am not sure what weapon I would prefer... neither!
Making that final decision to react would have to be a matter of life or death.
Great question.
Respectfully In Kenpo,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh
www.unitedparkerskenpo.com
If I was able to create reasonable distance between myself and my attacker, I think I would rather have them weild a knife. An attacker holding a gun at a good distance can really not be defended.
If the attacker was right on me I am not sure what weapon I would prefer... neither!
Making that final decision to react would have to be a matter of life or death.
Great question.
Respectfully In Kenpo,
Joshua Ryer
UPK Pittsburgh
www.unitedparkerskenpo.com
Sigung86
2nd Black Belt
My first thought on this question is that ... facing either one, I would have an overwhelming need to run! Run hard, run fast, and run serpentine. For the "most part", both weapons are ineffective in the hands of the average person with distances greater than 12 feet.
Having faced a live blade, and having lost a piece of finger, even though I successfully pulled it off ... I have to say that there are too many factors in my mind to stand here and say that I would rather face one over the other. Terrain comes to mind, space to move in. What do I have on my person that I can use as an equalizer. Are there other people in the way... Does the attacker appear to be skilled or just a bozo with a blade.
The man I faced was quite skilled, and it was a friendly encounter... Rehearsed and planned for a demonstration. We had done the moves a thousand times together. We got a little sloppy, because we had done it that thousand times. We didn't check the terrain... A wrestling ring. Lots of bounce there! We didn't think of safety, we were confident. We used a Rambo III to be showy ... I went for his wrist, we bounced, my hand staid pretty much where it was. He came down and took off the tip of my right third finger almost back to the first joint.
Even injured, we took it to the end, but my wife knew something had gone wrong. She said that it went from demo speed to "live".
I finished the technique, and came to a "conscious state" just soon enough to keep from driving my injured fist directly into his heart at full force. He was still glassy eyed and in pain for several days after the fact. My finger came back after a number of months, believe it or not.
I say all that to say this... If you haven't faced the reality of it, even under controlled settings... It can be quite different.
Doesn't always work like in the movies or in practice! :lol:
Dan
Having faced a live blade, and having lost a piece of finger, even though I successfully pulled it off ... I have to say that there are too many factors in my mind to stand here and say that I would rather face one over the other. Terrain comes to mind, space to move in. What do I have on my person that I can use as an equalizer. Are there other people in the way... Does the attacker appear to be skilled or just a bozo with a blade.
The man I faced was quite skilled, and it was a friendly encounter... Rehearsed and planned for a demonstration. We had done the moves a thousand times together. We got a little sloppy, because we had done it that thousand times. We didn't check the terrain... A wrestling ring. Lots of bounce there! We didn't think of safety, we were confident. We used a Rambo III to be showy ... I went for his wrist, we bounced, my hand staid pretty much where it was. He came down and took off the tip of my right third finger almost back to the first joint.
Even injured, we took it to the end, but my wife knew something had gone wrong. She said that it went from demo speed to "live".
I finished the technique, and came to a "conscious state" just soon enough to keep from driving my injured fist directly into his heart at full force. He was still glassy eyed and in pain for several days after the fact. My finger came back after a number of months, believe it or not.
I say all that to say this... If you haven't faced the reality of it, even under controlled settings... It can be quite different.
Doesn't always work like in the movies or in practice! :lol:
Dan
W
WayOfTheKeyboard
Guest
Like Sigung86 says, reality is not like in the movies. Too many movies make us think that every shot hits the target which then instantly falls dead.
I remember reading that most real life shootings take place at about 15 feet, and that trained police officers are only accurate about 20 percent of the time in a real situation. So don't understimate distance in avoiding getting shot. And another thing is, most single gunshot (like 80%) are not fatal. So I agree with Sigung86, run, zigzag, keep running.
And, someone did another demo that at 15 feet or less a man with a knife beats a man with a gun if the gun isnt already drawn. Something like that, anyway. So dont underestimate the danger of a knife at a distance either. Again, like Sigung86 said, run.
Way
I remember reading that most real life shootings take place at about 15 feet, and that trained police officers are only accurate about 20 percent of the time in a real situation. So don't understimate distance in avoiding getting shot. And another thing is, most single gunshot (like 80%) are not fatal. So I agree with Sigung86, run, zigzag, keep running.
And, someone did another demo that at 15 feet or less a man with a knife beats a man with a gun if the gun isnt already drawn. Something like that, anyway. So dont underestimate the danger of a knife at a distance either. Again, like Sigung86 said, run.
Way
Brother John
Senior Master
I know of a true story that applies here.
I know this matial arts master who is known for his skillful use of a knife. He had taught a seminar earlier that day in which everyone was practicing knife work with speed and fluidity, powerfully executing every technique...with rubber or wooden knives. Then, later, the master had a handful of his highest ranking black belts in his hotelroom, discussing issues of the day. Then the master stood up and asked his students (4ths and 5ths) how they had felt doing the knife work today. They liked the techniques they had worked and felt very comfortable with their knife skills. The master said that the lesson wasn't over and he had one thing left to teach, a lesson that they wouldn't forget. He walked over, grabbed a REAL knife, unsheathed it and asked who wanted to go first. Each high ranking martial artist went to face a real blade... moving slow... and felt hesitant and shaky.
Facing a REAL blade is an eye opener! A lesson not forgotten.
My own instructor tells me of his lessons in the Kenpo "Rod" techniques... the gun disarms for those that don't know.
He said that his instructor at the time (Mr. Tabatabai) used a pistol with blanks and would have the attacker raise the arm at a steady rate and fire upon reaching height. BIG eye opener. The sound stunns, the smell the sight...everything is different.
Now if we can just get the guys on the street to attack with rubber knives and guns.
Your Brother
John
I know this matial arts master who is known for his skillful use of a knife. He had taught a seminar earlier that day in which everyone was practicing knife work with speed and fluidity, powerfully executing every technique...with rubber or wooden knives. Then, later, the master had a handful of his highest ranking black belts in his hotelroom, discussing issues of the day. Then the master stood up and asked his students (4ths and 5ths) how they had felt doing the knife work today. They liked the techniques they had worked and felt very comfortable with their knife skills. The master said that the lesson wasn't over and he had one thing left to teach, a lesson that they wouldn't forget. He walked over, grabbed a REAL knife, unsheathed it and asked who wanted to go first. Each high ranking martial artist went to face a real blade... moving slow... and felt hesitant and shaky.
Facing a REAL blade is an eye opener! A lesson not forgotten.
My own instructor tells me of his lessons in the Kenpo "Rod" techniques... the gun disarms for those that don't know.
He said that his instructor at the time (Mr. Tabatabai) used a pistol with blanks and would have the attacker raise the arm at a steady rate and fire upon reaching height. BIG eye opener. The sound stunns, the smell the sight...everything is different.
Now if we can just get the guys on the street to attack with rubber knives and guns.
Your Brother
John
Brother John
Senior Master
IN case some of my brothers are here that were in that room, please note: though I paraphrased... it is the essence of what was told to me. The essential point is unchanged...
Your Brother
John
Your Brother
John
B
brianhunter
Guest
20% ? Define accurate id like to see this study. Center mass usually stops the attacker. When I went through the academy 21ft was the min. distance for an encounter hard to do sometimes depending on the call.
M
meni
Guest
Originally posted by Brother John
I'd rather face a knife than a gun.
The reason?
Survival statistics.
More people survive knife attacks than those that survive gun attacks.
I'd rather not have to do either, but if I get to pick...knife.
UNLESS youre talking about Mr. Mills being the weilder. THEN I think I'd die either way and would prefer his speed drawing skills to put me out QUICK!!!
OK, now I'm depressed...
:wah:
gonna go hug my kids.
Your Brother
John
i have to agree !
for sure a knife!
Brother John
Senior Master
yes, but Les asked:
so what would you rather if you were cornered and couldn't run??
just wonderin....
Your Brother
John
Still the knife, because it requires little-to-no skill to use a gun. Hell, a DA-only revolver only needs to be pointed in your direction and fired...don't have to worry about pulling the hammer back, the semi-auto action of chambering a round, or even a safety. As long as the gun is loaded with the correct ammunition, just 'point and click'.
Sure, it doesn't really require much skill to slash or stab with a knife, but that bullet will be moving much faster than the knife.
Cthulhu
Sure, it doesn't really require much skill to slash or stab with a knife, but that bullet will be moving much faster than the knife.
Cthulhu
M
meni
Guest
I wish my computer would work like this
The correct software and then point and click
Brother John
Senior Master
"I wish my computer would work like this
The correct software and then point and click "
Few in history have been so blessed my brother!
few...
Your Brother
John
The correct software and then point and click "
Few in history have been so blessed my brother!
few...
Your Brother
John
C
Chiduce
Guest
Brother John, you make a good point here! Real knife defensive training starts in my system at 3rd brown belt. I teach the basic lunges, downward stabs, and slicing stabs close quarters, at moderate speed. At 2nd brown the speed increases to high velocity, and 1st brown the velocity is increased up a notch. The black belt knife training is then experienced at the previous speeds and then transformed into more realistic circumstances, depending upon situations, locations of the attack taking place and conditions concerning available witnesses, lonely parking lots, etc,.! The gun defenses are also taught.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!
OP
OP
Les
Brown Belt
Brother John,
Surely we must balance the survival statistics with the frequency statistics of each attack.
Here in the UK, you are three times more likely to be killed with a knife than a gun. (Source; Office for National Statistics)
While I'll accept that guns are easier to obtain in the USA, I beleive that proportionally more people will carry a knife.
Les
OP
OP
Les
Brown Belt
Yari,
While I agree with your point about a gun going off during a struggle, couldn't a knife cut or stab you, or someone else during the struggle.
The gun will only damage you from a small part of it's mass, but the knife has a greater damage creating area.
You mentioned distance, but surely that is a way of avoiding the confrontation, which the original post precluded.
Les
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