Getting height on my side kicks

[Nevian]

I'm 32 years old and have been training TKD for about six months. I'm struggling a bit with getting the necessery height on my side kicks. I'm a little unsure whether the problem is flexibility or strength, or maybe both. I can easily stand upright and place my palms on the floor, which tells me that my hamstrings are quite flexible. Doesn't it? However, when I try to raise my leg sideways I do feel tension at the back of my thigh a bit high up as soon as I reach hip level. This would also be the hamstring wouldn't it? When it comes to the side-split I can maybe reach 100° max.

What I currently do to improve my kicks (and height) is to stand close to a wall and simply perform them again and again. I also attach a weight to my foot and raise it sideways as far I can and hold it. Are there any other good excercises you can suggest or am I on the right track?

 

[granfire]

I'm 32 years old and have been training TKD for about six months. I'm struggling a bit with getting the necessery height on my side kicks. I'm a little unsure whether the problem is flexibility or strength, or maybe both. I can easily stand upright and place my palms on the floor, which tells me that my hamstrings are quite flexible. Doesn't it? However, when I try to raise my leg sideways I do feel tension at the back of my thigh a bit high up as soon as I reach hip level. This would also be the hamstring wouldn't it? When it comes to the side-split I can maybe reach 100° max.

What I currently do to improve my kicks (and height) is to stand close to a wall and simply perform them again and again. I also attach a weight to my foot and raise it sideways as far I can and hold it. Are there any other good excercises you can suggest or am I on the right track?

you need to stretch the insides of your legs. like with a butterfly stretch etc. The sidekick has little to do with the hams strings in terms of restricting the movement. I think I know the muscle but I am drawing a blank now....

Sit on the floor, pull the bottoms of your feet together and press - gently of course - the knees to the ground. Also, getting the feet closer to your body intensifies the stretch. No bouncing of the stretch.

Also, the classic sitting on the floor with the legs spread as far as you can then reaching to each foot and down the middle. This can be done dynamic (as in reach left middle right without holding the stretch) or more static, holding each position for about 5 to 10 seconds (or 15 if you have the time)

Another one is to crouch down, and stick one leg out to the side, either the side of the foot on the floor or the heel (the position alters the stretch!) hold it for a while then shift the weight over to that leg and repeat on the other side.

but flexibility is the #1 problem for not getting the leg up.

(also, when you do the kicks on the wall, make sure your body is not hanging down and you raise the leg as high as you can. Also make SURE the technique is performed perfect meaning that you track precisely your movements!)

 

[Cyriacus]

you need to stretch the insides of your legs. like with a butterfly stretch etc. The sidekick has little to do with the hams strings in terms of restricting the movement. I think I know the muscle but I am drawing a blank now....

Quadricep

I also recommend Balance drills. For example, find a wall. Side Kick the wall gently, holding your leg at full extention for about 30 seconds, then coming down. Start at knee height, and do not press on the wall for balance. Its also a good way of perceiving progress.

Remember, being able to do splits isnt the same as doing a 720 Degree Flying Spinning Reverse Turning (Spin Hook) Kick

 

[granfire]

Quadricep

I also recommend Balance drills. For example, find a wall. Side Kick the wall gently, holding your leg at full extention for about 30 seconds, then coming down. Start at knee height, and do not press on the wall for balance. Its also a good way of perceiving progress.

Remember, being able to do splits isnt the same as doing a 720 Degree Flying Spinning Reverse Turning (Spin Hook) Kick

:asian:

Thanks

 

[Buka]

Nothing is better than time. Long years of much stretching. But, here's some stretch drills that might help you on your way.

Try that butterfly stretch with a partner. While you are in butterfly, have your partner kneeling in front of you, facing you. Have him place his palms on your knees. Now, before I get to the stretch drill, try this - have him push down kind of quickly. Not really hard, not to hurt you and not too far. But you'll feel your knees bounce back up against his push. That is your stretch reflex. That's the sucker you want to fool in this drill.

Have your partner, very slowly, push your knees toward the floor. REAL slow, like an eighth of an inch every ten seconds. After about twenty seconds, have him stop and hold your knees right there. Then force up against his hands, trying to raise/close your knees in an isometric movement (he doesn't allow your knees to raise). Hold that push for about five to ten seconds, then relax. Then have your partner, GENTLY and SLOWLY push your knees down some more. If he goes too quickly, your stretch reflex will kick in and that's what you want to avoid. Again, you'll recognize it by your knees bouncing up slightly. Have him push your knees down some more, even if it's an eighth of an inch. Repeat the hold down by him, and the pushing up by you. Then lower gently again. Repeat this as much as you can stand it, I recommend at least three to five push downs.

PART TWO of this drill. Still in a butterfly, lie back and lay on the floor. Have your partner push your heels closer to your butt. Have him kneel closer to you so his knees are bracing your insteps from sliding anywhere. Have him repeat the pushdown exercise with you on your back. Still slow and easy, same isometric push up by you (your knees) and avoid the stretch reflex. Do this a bunch of times as well. (how many is up to you, you'll know what's best by playing with it for a week or two)

PART THREE. Have your partner stand up, like in a real narrow horse stance, and pick up your legs and wrap them around HIS legs. "Behind your knees" should be around his outer shins. Have him lean down and place his hands on your knees. Yes, he's going to push down your knees as before and you are going to resist, but before he pushes, try to force your heels towards your butt. repeat a few times.

Another drill that will help - stand sideways against the wall. Pick up your sidekick and give it to your partner. Have him slowly raise it up, an inch at a time (or less) then have him hold it strong while you force it down for a ten count. Then have him raise it. (It will go up easier now) Repeat this an inch or so at a time, as high as you can go. (BOTH LEGS)

Both of the above stretches are proprioceptive neuromuscualar facilitation. (That's a fancy sports medicine term for what we martial artists have been doing for centuries)

Last one for now (I'll save the best for next time, because i'm tired of typing) This should be done last in your stretch workout. It's called the "lazy man's stretch".

Sit sideways against the wall, your legs straight out in front of you along the wall. make sure your butt is up against that wall. Then swing your legs up against the wall and your back onto the floor. Open your legs in a split position above you against the wall. Stay there. You might want a pillow under your head if you're at home, or a kick shield under your head if you're in the dojo. After a couple minutes, reach up with your hands, grab your gi pant and pull those suckers down to the floor a little more. Repeat that pulldown every couple minutes. If you stay in that position too long your legs will go to sleep. Which is okay, but you're screwed for a few minutes if the place catches on fire or if your instructor calls you.

Best of luck, my friend. And remember, stretching s*cks. Always has and always will. If it doesn't, your probably not doing it right.

 

[Thesemindz]

I don't believe on kicking much above my own waist. Especially with kicks that go against the side of the hip joint. That aside, I find that the real key to increasing the height on my kicks is to get better at the kicking technique. The more I work on proper form and accuracy, the more the kick is able to raise naturally on it's own. I'd say start with a low side kick you are comfortable with executing at a high degree of skill. Continue to practice that kick with as close to perfect form as possible. Slowly adjust the targets upward, continuing to work on form. Over time, the kick will get easier. You're balance will improve. And you will be able to hit harder, faster.

I don't know what your instructors are asking for, but I encourage my students to work on proper technique rather than trying to kick outside their range. I'd rather have effective low kicks I can land successfully than sloppy high kicks Ill miss with anyway. Start small. Work up. That's my approach.

You said six months and you're 32. It's going to take a while. Regardless of the specifics of the technique you're being taught it's going to take time to improve it. I'm fifteen years in kenpo and I'm still working my side kick every week. And getting better. Be patient, these things take time.


-Rob

 

[granfire]

I don't believe on kicking much above my own waist. Especially with kicks that go against the side of the hip joint. That aside, I find that the real key to increasing the height on my kicks is to get better at the kicking technique. The more I work on proper form and accuracy, the more the kick is able to raise naturally on it's own. I'd say start with a low side kick you are comfortable with executing at a high degree of skill. Continue to practice that kick with as close to perfect form as possible. Slowly adjust the targets upward, continuing to work on form. Over time, the kick will get easier. You're balance will improve. And you will be able to hit harder, faster.

I don't know what your instructors are asking for, but I encourage my students to work on proper technique rather than trying to kick outside their range. I'd rather have effective low kicks I can land successfully than sloppy high kicks Ill miss with anyway. Start small. Work up. That's my approach.

You said six months and you're 32. It's going to take a while. Regardless of the specifics of the technique you're being taught it's going to take time to improve it. I'm fifteen years in kenpo and I'm still working my side kick every week. And getting better. Be patient, these things take time.


-Rob

while in application high kicks have limited use, in training I think it is important to stretch the limit sand extend range.

 

[Thesemindz]

while in application high kicks have limited use, in training I think it is important to stretch the limit sand extend range.

I'm not against improving range. But there are physical limitations to the human body that naturally limit the maximum range of the joints. You can work to overcome them, but many people actually damage the muscle and bone tissue inside the body in doing so. While that may seem trivial when you're twenty, now that I'm pushing thirty walking normally is becoming more and more important to me long term. Martial arts training is hard on your legs, both of mine are severely damaged. And as I get older I no longer take the same risks with my training or my practice.

Stretching is fine and a necessary part of what we do. But increases in range come naturally from developing proper form, and there are ranges which can be reached which are detrimental to the body both in training and practice. I plan to do karate for a long long time. So I keep my kicks below the waist. Because I've seen enough and heard enough of injuries and hip replacements to be more careful with how I train these days.


-Rob

 

[granfire]

I'm not against improving range. But there are physical limitations to the human body that naturally limit the maximum range of the joints. You can work to overcome them, but many people actually damage the muscle and bone tissue inside the body in doing so. While that may seem trivial when you're twenty, now that I'm pushing thirty walking normally is becoming more and more important to me long term. Martial arts training is hard on your legs, both of mine are severely damaged. And as I get older I no longer take the same risks with my training or my practice.

Stretching is fine and a necessary part of what we do. But increases in range come naturally from developing proper form, and there are ranges which can be reached which are detrimental to the body both in training and practice. I plan to do karate for a long long time. So I keep my kicks below the waist. Because I've seen enough and heard enough of injuries and hip replacements to be more careful with how I train these days.


-Rob

true enough!
But also the aging generation now was subjected to different training styles back then.
I hope we made big strides in making it somewhat safer.

 

[rlobrecht]

stretching s*cks. Always has and always will. If it doesn't, your probably not doing it right.

Love it.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

i am thirty and dealing with the same issue. after being a self proclaimed couch potato since about 1998 i took up TKD about two months ago. my instructor wanted me to perform side kicks on a bag. it must have been the most pathetic sight he had ever seen. he made me work on my technique by putting my foot up on a bench(about the height of the rails ballerinas use) and stand in the proper form until he was tired. then switch legs. then he had me hold onto the bench and practice drawing my knee up and then kick. i stretch at home by putting my foot on the back of a chair and stretch the hip flexors. now i can land a solid side kick that knocks over his bags every time, about chest level to myself(i am 6'4"). i know this isn't very descriptive of my stretching and practice, but hey, i just woke up. time to stretch!!!

oh, another exercise i do is standing holding onto a bag or rail i lift my legs as high as i can sideways and hold it. keep doing that then switch legs. then i do the same thing but fast, like a ballistic stretch kinda....not focusing on holding it but just getting my leg up to max extension.

 

[Iwannakick]

I put leg weights on and it made me get them higher once i took them off, and I just got the YELLOW BELT!!!

 

[Thesemindz]

I put leg weights on and it made me get them higher once i took them off, and I just got the YELLOW BELT!!!

Congratulations Yellow Belt. Looks good on ya. Keep training.


-Rob

 

[Rumy73]

Hi! Keep working you can achieve your goal. I'm 38 and can kick at head level. I think I can offer some different pointers than the usual suspects - repetition and stretching. Rather, I think you need to closely evaluate your balance, body/foot positioning and strength. This method will greatly help you improve all of your kicks. How to do so?

Kicking stems from your core muscles: stomach, hips and upper legs. Sit ups and jump rope can work wonders. Also, do jumps were you stand up straight and jump, bringing your knees up. This will build strength and is great for your heart. Balance is also intergral. How is your balance when doing the kick without holding the rail? Watch yourself in the mirror, as you will see things that may be inhibiting your performance. You can improve balance by sinking on the supporting leg as the kicking leg is being lifted to strike (visualize sitting into the kick); at the same time, gradual practice leaning back your trunk. This offsets the kicking leg. It also keeps your face away from the opponent. Look out of the corner of your eye in order not to lose the target.

If you incorporate the above methods you will be able to slowly raise the height of the kick. Also you can break down your practice: focus on power, focus on height, focus on control, focuse on technique, etc. Then bring those pieces together. It's OK to have weak kicks above belt/waist level, initially. Just getting the kick up there is an accomplishment. Remember to keep putting the pieces together. One type of practice will not get your there. In fact, repetition without analysis will leave you frustrated. Not everyone's body intuitively "gets it" and the technique naturally follows. Some of us need to break down the mechanics and understand things step by step.


Best of luck.

 

[Nevian]

Thanks for all the replies
I'm also noticing that my body want's to turn my side kick into a back kick, since it apparently gets more hang of that (especially in terms of height) *Probably also because I'm getting some upper thigh/hip pain when doing the side kick. Any thoughts on that?

 

[granfire]

Thanks for all the replies
I'm also noticing that my body want's to turn my side kick into a back kick, since it apparently gets more hang of that (especially in terms of height) *Probably also because I'm getting some upper thigh/hip pain when doing the side kick. Any thoughts on that?

Well, the side kick is pretty limited in range, just by the nature of the joint.

however, a 'back kick' often means that you are also not looking at your target.

When you perform a side kick, your toes on the leg you are standing on should be pointed away from your target. The pivot happens when you lift up that kicking leg, knee to the chest (well sort of), while the heel (bottom of the foot) is pointing at your target. the knee is in line with that, not dropped or such.

I find the sidekick hard to master. it is a very 'compact' kick but it offers a lot of advantages. It is a very powerful kick, easy to break wood with. it is very painful when you connect on the business end of it (ask how I know...) but yet is lets you keep control. Skilled practitioners I have been told can go from side to round to hook all in the blink of an eye, with hardly any change in setup...

So, I would suggest to not fall for the path of least resistance with the back kick: Practice the side kick in correct form, over and over. Slow motion while holding on to a wall or something like that.

 

[Gemini]

I'm also noticing that my body want's to turn my side kick into a back kick, since it apparently gets more hang of that (especially in terms of height) *

Actually, many people that have trouble with side kicks find themselves twisting into a back kick, when the hips creating more resistance than the inner thighs. There are several effective stretches above that focus on the inner thigh and waist which you should follow so I won't repeat. I'm hesitant to recommend stretching with a partner unless one of you really knows what they're doing. It's easy to go too far and cause more harm than good. That said, IMO, the best stretches are ones which do involve a partner, so if you know a good one, great!

In speaking of the hips, here are a few that I've found to be effective. While doing your floor stretches, in a sitting position, put one leg out straight and the other folded with your heel as close to your butt as possible. As you stretch to touch your toes on the straight leg, come back up to a sitting position and rotate your torso (use your hands on the floor to assist if necessary) towards the folded leg and hold it. Another particular static stretch mentioned above where, in a standing position, you hold your leg in a side kick stance against a wall as high as you can without pain. This is another stretch that was identified above that works even better with an experienced partner. A good dynamic stretch after you're warmed up, is standing, facing a wall, leaning in slightly with your hands supporting you at about shoulder height, swing your leg up into a side kick as far as you can and back down. After 10 on each leg, repeat, but this time, when you bring your leg back down, swing it in the opposite direction as far as you can while holding a straight form. Make sure that all the stretches you attempt, that you keep your body straight and your butt in. Last, remember stretching is something you can and should do before, during and after your exercise routine.

Probably also because I'm getting some upper thigh/hip pain when doing the side kick. Any thoughts on that?

If you're doing any motion or stretch that causes real pain (like a hip pointer) stop it! You're causing real damage and will cause your body to go into "defense" mode. Stretching is about resistance, not pain. The best advise you received above was that this is a long, slow process. Convincing your body to do something is doesn't want to is a matter of manipulation, not assault. We're all built differently and have movements that may prove difficult. You're body will tell you what works and what doesn't by your results. You can't tell it what its opinion is regardless of how bad you may want to.

Good luck!

 

[Nevian]

Some guy said if the case is that I can drop my trunk and the leg still doesn't get any higher, then strength and/or flexability of the supporting leg is the issue. I'm having trouble seeing how the supporting leg is "to blame" more than the kicking leg. Can someone explain this?

 

[Cyriacus]

Some guy said if the case is that I can drop my trunk and the leg still doesn't get any higher, then strength and/or flexability of the supporting leg is the issue. I'm having trouble seeing how the supporting leg is "to blame" more than the kicking leg. Can someone explain this?

That... *can* be the case. Its a bit complicated, but it can be the case. Youd need to video tape yourself doing it, and watch what your upper body and back leg do as you kick - If either bends to a certain degree, then thats your body compensating.

Ive never seen that actually be the issue, mostly its just overall flexibility, and people thinking they can gain said flexibility in any short length of time, and overestimating themselves. But who knows!

 

[Jaeimseu]

Some guy said if the case is that I can drop my trunk and the leg still doesn't get any higher, then strength and/or flexability of the supporting leg is the issue. I'm having trouble seeing how the supporting leg is "to blame" more than the kicking leg. Can someone explain this?

When you execute a high side kick your base leg hamstring will feel a stretch. Your upper body can make a difference, as well, of course. I'm not so much talking about leaning down and sway from your target, but more keeping your body "relaxed" and working together. If your arms and shoulders are tensed up it will make kicking much more difficult in terms of height and balance. Good counter rotation of the hips and shoulders can also make it easier to kick higher and with better balance.