has anyone used there tkd in a real fight

Iwannakick

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Hi guys, I ws wondering who has used there taekwondo in a street fight because im always hearing it not effective? I am wanting to know because people always punch me and stuff at school cause they know that i wont do anything and next year in high school it will probably be alot worse....so im kind of scared about that if you know what i mean. thanks
 

msmitht

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Yes. What you need to understand is that any technique can be used for self defense if you know how and when to use it. I do not think fighting, especialy in school, is a good thing. You say kids are punching you. Why? Why have you not turned them in? If they get in trouble or if their parents find out they will leave you alone. Most schools have a zero tolerance policy. If you do nothing it will not help. You should not be afraid/scared to go to school. I recommend that you speak with your parents and your school counseler/teacher. Get a friend/witness to confirm if possible so that it is not just your word against theirs.
 

MAist25

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I definitely agree with msmitht about trying to speak to school officials about what is going on, but myself, as well as every single person on this board who went to high school (which I hope is everyone : p) knows that "telling on" somebody sometimes makes things even worse. I wholeheartedly and firmly believe that nobody should ever ever ever be afraid to go to school. However, I think Taekwondo can definitely help you to deal with the situation you are in. Forget about fighting, that shouldnt be on your mind at all. You go to school to learn, not to fight. But Taekwondo should help you build confidence in yourself and if there is one thing on the planet that bullies are afraid of; its confidence. If you show them that you arent afraid to stand up for yourself then they will most likely leave you alone, only to go pick on somebody else, unfortunately. But if the bullying persists, especially the physical bullying, then you definitely need to find a school official who will help you. If somebody is physically bullying you and you retaliate and end up hurting them, you are going to be the one that gets punished. Its messed up, but its the truth. So if they are talking smack, dont be afraid to give them a taste of their own medicine. But if they continue to physically bully you then that's when it's time to tell somebody.
 
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Iwannakick

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thanks, if i tell on them then they will probably come up and hit me alot..cause they arent scaed of the school people since they think theyre gangsters...
 

troubleenuf

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Ill give you a quick reply, with something I DONT recommend you doing. I started TKD when I was in College so we would go to TKD and then walk back to our dorms in uniform. There were always some smart a** saying something to you. One day one of the smart mouths said something like hey show me something and then jumped at me... so I front kicked him into the wall. After that no one smart mouthed us again.
 

ATC

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Why do people know you practice TKD? One rule we have is you never where you TKD uni outside of the Dojang. It is OK if people know you do it but you really if you just go about the day as normal I really don't see how TKD woould even come up. Both my kids do TKD and they never had a single person ever jump at them or swing at them because of it. Most people don't even know they do TKD unless they also do TKD and those people won't do those silly things.

You need to simply go to school and make friends, as well as learn. Leave TKD in the dojang and no one should be doing anything. There should be know time for TKD at school so again, why does anyone at school even know you practice TKD?
 

ralphmcpherson

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The highschool I went to had a tkd club that trained in the hall after school. Lots of kids in my grade did tkd. It definetely works in a real fight, and works well. I dont understand how anyone can think it wouldnt work, you learn punches, kicks, elbows, knees, throat strikes, grabs, throws, joint manipulation etc etc. If they dont work in a fight nothing will. BUT, dont get in fights at school, dont ever get in fights if you can avoid it and steer clear of those 'gangster wannabees'.
 

poollshark

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Why do people know you practice TKD? One rule we have is you never where you TKD uni outside of the Dojang. It is OK if people know you do it but you really if you just go about the day as normal I really don't see how TKD woould even come up. Both my kids do TKD and they never had a single person ever jump at them or swing at them because of it. Most people don't even know they do TKD unless they also do TKD and those people won't do those silly things.

You need to simply go to school and make friends, as well as learn. Leave TKD in the dojang and no one should be doing anything. There should be know time for TKD at school so again, why does anyone at school even know you practice TKD?


This. Great advice ATC.
 

Thesemindz

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Lots of guys have had to use their training outside the school. In situations of social violence it is often short with few if any real injuries. In situations of actual self defense it is often traumatic and more terrifying than you can easily imagine without having experienced it yourself. Fighting outside the karate school is always a bad idea. It is dangerous at best, will often result in serious life altering consequences, and for most people, never actually makes them feel better. As young men we often build fantasies in our heads of standing triumphant over the bully, or the tough guy, or the mugger, or our boss at work, or the guy who's dating the girl we like, but in reality those fantasies don't end well. Win or lose, you will almost always regret having used violence as a form of conflict resolution.

Even when I worked security and it was my job to use controlled violence when necessary it was never what I wanted to do. I always wanted to get the person to leave with verbal persuasion, which may include something along the lines of, "this is about to get a lot worse for you." When I actually had to put my hands on people, it only ever ended one way and I attribute that to my training. But putting hands on the customers was not my first answer to a problem. It was my last answer to a problem that no other answer could solve.

As to your other question about bullying. I have good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Bullies will find a reason to pick on you. It doesn't matter what you do. They will find something about you they don't like and attack it. To some degree that's human nature, to some degree that's their own insecurity. You're going to have to find a way to survive in that environment. And punching and kicking aint it. Stand strong, ignore their garbage, and don't go out of your way to make a target of yourself. Don't go around telling people you do TKD, because they'll pick on you for it. Just keep it to yourself, train hard, and focus on your studies.

The good news is you'll make it through this. School sucks. You have to put up with a lot of crap, and bullies are just a part of that. But there's less and less of that as you leave school and get older. People who don't learn how to co-exist in polite society don't get to be a part of it. They end up in prison or dead. So as an adult you won't have to put up with this as much, unless of course you don't learn how to co-exist in polite society. There will always be jerks and pinheads, but they can't hurt you, and mostly in the adult world they end up losers. Because no one likes them. And as an adult, there are few more important skills than the ability to get people to like you.

Violence is rarely ever the right way to handle a disagreement. And as you get better at it, it will be the right thing to do even less often. That may initially seem counter-intuitive. But as you get stronger and tougher, everyone else will be weaker and more fragile by comparison. And beating up people who are smaller than you is called bullying. And you already know how bullying makes people feel.

So don't do it. Don't rise to their taunts and don't react with violence. It won't make things better. Focus on your school work, get a good job, and ignore the little people who make noise along the way. You won't have to put up with them forever, and when they are gone I promise you you will forget them. Because you will have better things to think about.

TKD can work in a street fight. But most schools don't teach street style TKD. Most schools teach sport TKD. Which is a fine and powerful style that is specifically designed and taught to be used in the sport arena. Albert Pujols could probably bash someone's head in with a ball bat, that doesn't mean his sport training was designed for that purpose. The other things you may be learning, indomitable spirit, determination, respect, those things will get you through life. The kicking and punching is a specific skill for a specific purpose. I don't know what you're learning in your school, whether it's for sport or self defense. But it's important that you know so you can apply it properly. And whether it is sport or self defense, whether it works in a fight or not, you shouldn't be using it in a fight anyway. Because you shouldn't be in fights anyway.

Don't focus on whether you can win a fight. Focus on your training. Focus on getting better. Focus on staying out of fights. I practice kenpo. Master Tatum once said, "kenpo is not so much a system of fighting as it is a system that teaches social harmony. The goal is never to have to use it to fight." If you are truly paying attention to your studies in TKD, you should be learning the fragility of the human body and how easily it can be corrupted or destroyed. Your goal is to do that to your opponent. What do you suppose his goal is?

Stay out of fights.


-Rob
 

Thesemindz

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Why do people know you practice TKD? One rule we have is you never where you TKD uni outside of the Dojang. It is OK if people know you do it but you really if you just go about the day as normal I really don't see how TKD woould even come up. Both my kids do TKD and they never had a single person ever jump at them or swing at them because of it. Most people don't even know they do TKD unless they also do TKD and those people won't do those silly things.

I think that's good advice for kids. I don't think they should go around talking about their training either, it only invites problems. On the other hand, as an adult, I talk about my karate training all the time. It comes up because I bring it up. I try to spread the good news everywhere I go. Karate is for everyone. It makes you stronger, faster, smarter, healthier. it makes you better. And everyone should do it.

Kids should probably avoid pointing out all the things that make them unique. Those are the things bullies will attack. But if an adult has something awesome to share, I say share it. Spread the message. Make the world a better place.


-Rob
 

Sukerkin

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Despite my innate aggressive nature {I always used to use my fists as a tool of conflict resolution when I was a kid :eek:}, I was forbidden from the use of violence for religious reasons ... and fear of the good-hiding I'd get off my dad if he learned I'd been fighting.

So I was a natural target for bullies when I moved up to Secondary School {11 years to 16 years in Britain}. I took quite a few beatings in my first days, I remember all too well and very frustrating it was to not to be able to give back some of what I was taking. Happily for me, the bullies started to realise that those looks I was giving them were not fear but anger and, much more fundamentally, some of my class-mates rallied round me. They told the bullies in no uncertain terms that, tho' I could not fight them back, they were more than willing to on my behalf.

That saved my school years I reckon.
 

Cyriacus

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On one occasion ive used TKD in a Real Fight.
Its the only Real Fight ive ever been in.
Not that it ever got to the point of a Fight.
I was walking out of a Fast Food place, and some doped up youth started shoving me, and shouting. After multiple warnings, i noticed one of his open hands close into a fist. When he threw his hand, i took his forearm, took him to the ground and put him into a Standing Armlock, until he seemed subdued (about 5 seconds).
Then i walked away.
I could have beaten the **** out of him, but why do that, when he gave me the means to passively resolve the situation.
But for debate sake, after grabbing his forearm, substitute taking him down with SideKicking him in the chest, or replacing my push with a Palm Heel Thrust. At the time, it would have worked.
Or just Hammerfisting him whilst he was down.

Of course TKD works in a real fight.
The real questions are; How much and what kind of force is most applicable to the situation, how dangerous the situation is for you (Number of Attackers, Weapons, etc), and to a lesser extent, the supposition that your Training hasnt omitted any aspects of the Art (I.e., McDojangs).
And most of the people who say otherwise, are usually saying it to blindly praise something else, or due to predisposed prejudice.
Or they dont believe any MA are effective, like many of the uninitiated.

Anyway, thats my 5 cents. Due to time constraints, ill leave it at that. And so i dont need to add a TL;DR Summary.

EDIT: Or they havent Sparred a Beginner in a while, and have forgotten what they can now do, which a less Trained person cannot, or cannot defend against.
 
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Iwannakick

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Why do people know you practice TKD? One rule we have is you never where you TKD uni outside of the Dojang. It is OK if people know you do it but you really if you just go about the day as normal I really don't see how TKD woould even come up. Both my kids do TKD and they never had a single person ever jump at them or swing at them because of it. Most people don't even know they do TKD unless they also do TKD and those people won't do those silly things.

You need to simply go to school and make friends, as well as learn. Leave TKD in the dojang and no one should be doing anything. There should be know time for TKD at school so again, why does anyone at school even know you practice TKD?
they dont know i was just wondering if i needed to i could use it, the reason is sometimes I get angry when people come up and hit my head or something and one of these days they need to get it cause im tired of etting punched and stuff you know. thanks for the answers guys
 

Cyriacus

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they dont know i was just wondering if i needed to i could use it, the reason is sometimes I get angry when people come up and hit my head or something and one of these days they need to get it cause im tired of etting punched and stuff you know. thanks for the answers guys
Remember: Its only Illegal if it exceeds the Statute of Limitations and Laws regarding Reasonable Force!
Id blindly discourage you, but I find it more productive to just advise someone to Moderate their Outbursts :)
 

Thesemindz

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Remember: Its only Illegal if it exceeds the Statute of Limitations and Laws regarding Reasonable Force!
Id blindly discourage you, but I find it more productive to just advise someone to Moderate their Outbursts :)

I'll go ahead and blindly discourage him.

Don't start fights. Don't use violence to solve your problems. Don't resort to violence until and unless you absolutely must.

I know it sucks. I know how much it hurts to be bullied. I was a fat ginger nerd. I understand the effects of bullying, on both sides of the coin. I was also a bully at times. I know the desire to dominate others with violence and to resist the domination of others with violence. It doesn't pay. Not where you are at.

Dipsticks punching you in the arm between classes is a problem with an expiration date. I know that day to day it seems like an unbearable frustration. But it ends. You will move past this and life will get better. This kind of crap fades away. It's kid stuff. Be above it.

Kids push each other around. Sometimes it gets physical. Sometimes there's pushing and shoving and name calling. That's all part of kids learning how to interact. They get better at it as they get older. You will be exposed to it less. It never totally goes away, but you'll find your place.

If anyone tries to hurt you, I mean really hurt you, you must defend yourself. But there's a big difference between self defense and social violence. If you don't play, they'll find someone else who will. Telling the teachers won't help. If they were concerned about the teachers they wouldn't be bullying you to begin with. Telling the teachers makes you look weak, and looking weak makes you even more of a target. I know others will disagree with me here, but I can only speak from my own experience. Telling the teachers only got me suspended, ridiculed, and bullied further. You can stand up for yourself. You can be strong. But sometimes you also need to walk away. Most of the time you need to walk away. Walking away is safer and smarter, and not walking away, getting into a fight, will ruin your day every time. Win or lose. When violence becomes a part of your day everything goes sideways. You won't be going to your next class. You won't be hanging out with your friends after school. You will be hurt, suspended, in trouble with your parents, and the division between you and the bullies will be even worse. Violence is a bad solution that is only rarely the correct one. And even then it doesn't make things good, it only makes them less worse.

Walking away isn't always easy, but as you get stronger it'll get easier. Walking away is simple for me now, because I know that if a fight broke out it would end badly. Walking away is nothing once you've had thousands of fights in the karate school. Because you've been punched and kicked and thrown on the floor, and it's not nearly so scary, or enticing, as it seems when you don't know any better.

I can tell you that bullying is a sign of weakness. That's true. I can tell you that bullies try to make others feel small to make themselves feel bigger. That's true. I can tell you that bullies are cowards inside. But that won't make them go away. And it doesn't make them easier to deal with. Bullies suck. They aren't all evil. Sometimes it's hard not to be a bully when you're bigger than everybody else. But some of them are evil, or at least broken inside.

Try not to let them decide how you live. Sometimes we have to deal with things we don't like in life. But we choose how we react to those things. We choose how to live our lives. Not the bullies. They are sad little things, with nothing to create or enjoy. Go be something else. Be something interesting. Learn what subjects you love in school. Learn more about your TKD. Find a hobby and develop skills you enjoy. There will come a time when you see bullies for who and what they are, and you won't feel anything but sorry for them. For now, just get on with your life.

But please don't go around punching and kicking them in the face. Unless you absolutely have to defend yourself, violence is not the answer. In the adult world, you will need more than punches and kicks to fix your problems. And you will have to spend a lot of time with people you don't like. Your employers won't care whether you like your coworkers, they just want you to turn in your quota of widgets on time. Figure out how to make your enemies your friends. Practice changing people's minds with your words, instead of your fists. Those skills will serve you far better in life.

I'm a bad bad dude. I got mad karate skillz. But when someone in life says something hurtful to me, I can't drop a roundhouse kick on them. Learn a better way. Before you learn laziness instead. Once you resort to fixing your problems with violence, it can be very difficult to grow past that. And that won't work when you're older. It'll get you in a box. Dead or alive.

Learning people is harder than learning fighting. But there's a karate lesson your instructors should be teaching you about hard work. It pays. So do it.


-Rob
 

msmitht

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Always the same. "If you tell on them things will get worse". Times are different from when we were kids. There is a zero tolerance policy at almost every school in america. Turn them in, all of them, and they will either leave you alone or get expelled. Fighting will only lead to you getting in trouble too. If you think that they won't care about getting in trouble or expelled then you are wrong. If they continue to try and hurt you then you/your parents should contact the authorities (police). See if that helps.I was in your situation in the early 80's. I let 3 guys push me around until one day I snapped. Unfortunateley for all I had my skateboard in hand and used it on them. After a nasty fight all 4 of us went to the hospital. I broke 2 fingers. The jerks had multipe lacerations from getting hit, repeatedly, with a skateboard. 30 stitches in total. I was arrested and got off in court due to witness reports that the three of them had bullied me for over a year. I was expelled and had to see a therapist for 6 months. Bullying hurts all involved in one way or another. TURN THEM IN BEFORE YOU SNAP!There were some kids in columbine who snapped due to pressure......no one wants to see that again.
 

ETinCYQX

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thanks, if i tell on them then they will probably come up and hit me alot..cause they arent scaed of the school people since they think theyre gangsters...

I'm going to be honest as someone who got through a high school like that, weighing 160lbs. Not as an instructor and I'll deny this :p

But stand up for yourself. Tell them to f-off and if it gets physical, well, it'll only take once. Going to teachers never, ever helps.

The attitude towards fighting in school these days is ridiculous and everyone involved including the coddling parents who support it should be embarrassed IMO.
 

Markku P

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"has anyone used there tkd in a real fight?"

Not really but I am fast talker and much faster runner..:angel:

/Markku P
 

oftheherd1

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You haven't gotten any bad advice here, but I think Thesemindz may have explained it better.

When I was just a tyke, maybe 4 or 5 years old, I got into a meaningless fight against 4 or 5 neighborhood kids. Nobody got hurt but me. Not because I couldn't defend myself, I did it very well, and we were too young to really hurt one another. But I felt so proud and good I went inside and told my mother. She was having a ladies' church meeting. It went down hill from there. I was made to feel so bad I never again wanted to fight, and would do anything I could to avoid it. But I learned some valuable verbal skills.

I didn't back down from bullies really, but would do all I could verbally to let them know I wasn't backing down, simply choosing not to fight. I will admit I often felt a little inadequate. But not always. In fact, it was often satisfying to know I had taken a lot of the steam out of them by refusing to fight.

Now that I have studied martial arts, I am no more inclined to want to fight. In fact, the MA I have studied have generally taught me to continue to avoid fights. I think that is a good thing. Knowing MA actually can put one in jeapordy when there are other options, if you actually get into a fight and injure an antagonist. Note I said antagonist, not attacker.

Self defense is different. If you are being attacked by someone who wishes to do you physical harm, defense may be a viable option. But not always. Unfortunately I can't tell you every circumstance where fighting, standing your ground without actually fighting, or turning around and running is the exact correct response. Only life will teach you that. Sucks doesn't it?

I am sorry you don't feel you can talk to your teachers. They should be your first line of defense in school. Are they really that bad, or are you just reluctant to talk to them for fear you will be picked on even more? I can understand that. I would hope however, that you can talk to your parents about it. I don't know what you think they think about you, but I would be very surprised and disappointed in them if they can't offer solutions, and even more importantly than solutions, support.

You might also want to talk to your TKD teacher. He presumably has some experience in avoiding conflict, as well as when there is no alternative. Hopefully your TKS teacher and your parents can offer solutions if you talk to them about specific situations. One of the big problems is how many people will first react when you talk to them about arm hitting or head slapping. Bullies and their friends can make it sound so innocent, almost friendly. You need to be able to tell those doing it and those you complain to, exactly how far and to what level it has progressed.

I am sorry to tell you that you may have to learn to put it all aside as Thesemindz and others have said. It doesn't sound like good advice now, but truely, you will have learned a more valuable lesson than those who pick on you. If they don't learn how to get along with most people, they are always going to be at the lower levels of society, and not succeeding in life. That should not be where you want to be.

Good luck in deciding how to handle this problem. I really encourage you to talk to your parents and TKD teacher. Also, don't be afraid to come here for help, but we don't really know you or where you live, so we probably can't help as much.
 

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