Geting Paid to teach

ace

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As a Martial Arts instructor i teach
3 Times a Week But never get paid.

Now it's not my school but i still devote alot
of my Time to it. I see alot of $$$ go many other
places but none ever to Me.

I love to teach but am coming to a crossroads here
were somany have said Man U are worth alot.
U most be geting a good buck.

I don't know weather to L.o.L .or Cry.
What would U do in my situation????????
:confused:
 
S

SteelShadow

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Depends on some factors .
1 do you need the money
2 do you feel the school owner is taking advantage of you
3do you enjoy your art and teaching it enough to continue to do it free
All of these things and a few more can be the desiding factor on if you L.O.L or cry...lol

just my thoughts
 

Matt Stone

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Is the school non-profit, or is the school the owner's source of income?

If you are teaching in place of the owner, assuming it is a commercial, income producing school, what kind of contractual relationship do the students have with the instructor? Does their contract state they will be taught by him and others, or by him alone?

If you are teaching in place of the owner, assuming it is a commercial, income producing school, what kind of insurance does he provide for you in the (hopefully) unlikely event you injure a student through your acts or omissions? Are you under a contractual relationship with the owner to provide instructional services in his place? If not, then why do you teach? Do you teach according to his guidance, or do you teach what you choose to teach? If there is no contract of some sort between you, outlining the responsibilities and duties required, then something is amiss...

Why do you teach 3 times a week? Where is the owner/chief instructor? Why is he not teaching?

Seems that there are more questions here than just whether you should be paid or not...

Also, interestingly enough, I read in the JAMA a few years back an article about how TKD students run into very similar situations very regularly, where the chief instructor requires some form of instructional duties on the part of his students and the students eventually feel that the class is more theirs than the teachers (since he spends less time teaching than they do).

Seems to be an interesting paradigm in commercial schools...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:
 

Seig

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I require my upper belts to teach. I do not pay them, it is a requirement for the belt levels. Why do I do this? Teaching the material gives them a greater understanding of it. I supervise the lessons as well as give feedback on how and what they are teaching. I also interject when I feel they have missed something important.
 
K

KenpoDragon

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First of all do you still have to pay for instruction, even though your the instructor 3 days a week??? Second are you learning anything new from your instructor??? Third what level are you at, that you are teaching so much??? And finally I would talk to the actual instructor, and see if you and him can work something out financially. Just my opinion though.

:asian:
 
C

c2kenpo

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I think this is a hard question for anyone to answer. I actually work with/for a MA school that is my job. From 9am to 5 pm and teaching or helping out from 5pm to 8pm and that I would and do for free. But I also get instruction above and beyond what others recieve in the normal curriculum by way of 2-3 extra classes a week and by the instructors assisting on the floor and poinint things out that I may miss. You also have to think that the school owners may also be looking for grooming people for positions to take over the school one day in the future.

the question is what kind of commitment to you have to the art and sharing it with others.
I know everyone has to earn a living and that is the first most important thing.
My suggestion would be see if there can be an arrangment for your time and 3 times a week for how long? You need to justify your time value to your fun value and convert that to some form of compensation.

Me I do it for fun. Besides by the time the kids are all firedup and have banged on Mr. Dave for 2 hrs. I get to give back in my class!

Good luck on your dillemna.

David Gunzburg
 
OP
ace

ace

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There is more than 1 art tought in the School.
I teach Both.

I have not learned anything new in along time.
I do Love Both Arts very Much.

And at this point in my Life My Wife & i are try
to have a Baby So Yes Money is starting to become
a big Part of Things.

My post started after an argument with My Wife
She feels i should be paid.
I also here it alot from Both side of My Familia
As well as Students & Friends.

This post was written out of a bit of Frustration
on My Part.
But Still i Thank U for Your Imput.
:asian:
 
A

Abbax8

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Let's put things in perspective. You teach 3 classes a week. How many hours is that? 3.0, 4.5, 6.0 maybe 10 hours a week. How much does each student pay per month to train and how many students do you teach. 10,20 30. What is the total income to the school that you bring in. Now, how much is the rent or mortgage, the heat and electricity, the training aids, exercise equipment, the business and liability insurance costs. How about advertising costs to bring in new students. If after all the numbers are crunched how much would you expect the school to pay you. If you contribute a significant amount to the school, then yes in fairness you are entitled to some of the benefits. But are there other instructors who also teach for free? You ultimately have to decide whether you must be paid at that school, teach for free or start your own school. Good Luck.

Peace
Dennis
 

michaeledward

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Your time, energy and knowledge are due some form of compensation. You are doing yourself a dis-service to allow the owner of your school to take advantage of you in this manner. * * * You have invested a substantial amount of time, energy and money to acquire your skills. A return on that investment is due you when you provide instruction. * * * Also, when you are teaching at the school, there is an 'Opportunity Cost' that you are giving away. Were you not instructing a class, you could be painting your childs nursery, increasing the value of your home (an asset). The time in the studio prevents that from occuring.

Now, this being said ... here are some other random thoughts:
* I know there are rewards to teaching; it is wonderful when a student Gets It , but this does not absolve you from seeking appropriate compensation.
* Appropriate compensation could easily be free private lessons, gift certificates to resturants, something to show the owner appreciates your efforts.
* Seems to me that if there is truly no compensation going your way, there would be some ethical questions concerning the owner of the school. I do hope he is stepping up to the plate in some manner.

Assuming that you see the light, after reading this post, you must come to terms with the value of the services you provide on behalf of your schools owner. Here are some suggestions.
* Free private / semi-private advanced lessons on Sunday morning, so you can learn new material.
* An annual trip for you and your wife to a resort (Orlando, Vegas) These can be purchased pretty cheap.
* A flat fee per lesson trained -- for comparison, I think music instructors fetch between 12 - 18 dollars an hour.
* Some Public Recognition - Listing you as the Schools 'Most Valuable Trainer / Student' in the local advertisements.

Once you and the owner agree on what your services are worth, you'll just need to convince your wife that you didn't underprice yourself ..... because .... I'm sure you will have :)
 
L

lvwhitebir

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Originally posted by michaeledward
Your time, energy and knowledge are due some form of compensation. You are doing yourself a dis-service to allow the owner of your school to take advantage of you in this manner.

There are also some legal ramifications on this as well. I've been told a school in California required it's students to teach with no compensation, too. They were sued and had to pay a fine of $1000 per incident. That was thousands of dollars in fines for this practice. Check your local labor laws. If nothing else, you shouldn't have to pay tuition yourself and you should talk to your sifu about your lessons.

I agree that teaching is important, but there should be some compensation for it.

WhiteBirch
 

Deaf

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Been there and done this situation. Depending on the situations, depends on your response.

Is the instructor actively on the floor when you are teaching these classes?

How long have you actually been doing this?

You stated that you haven't learned anything new in a long time...hmmm well then I assume your instructor is not teaching you anything then or compensating you with extra training time.

You and your wife want to have a family but financially the extra time spent at the dojo is causing problems in that area.

My verdict..."Have the instructor pay up or start cutting your teaching time down"

I don't care what people say..Oh you can't accept money for teaching blah blah..bullshi#$.. Yes you can! You are not being disrespectful. You have a family to take care of and quite frankly if your instructor doesn't see this nor recognize this then I think you need to find a new instructor.

it is basically priorities. Which is first? Yourself, your family or your martial arts?

My opinon
 

Bob Hubbard

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I think in many of these cases, there is often another side or more information that is not readily apparent.

Compensation often times takes forms that family doesn't see as such...nor does the recipient. Having been in a similar situation myself, unless things are spelled out explicitly, people get outta sync, which causes misunderstandings and problems.

Not saying this is the case here, but, we don't have a full story.

:asian:
 
M

MartialArtist

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I would ask your instructor to teach you for free. It's a fair deal IMO.

You work hard, you help others, you devote a lot of time. The least he should do for your contribution and kindness is let you train there for free. No biggie.
 

Nightingale

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my personal feelings:

teaching group classes, if its required for your next rank (and for the most part, teaching SHOULD be required to earn higher rank, because you learn a lot) you shouldn't get paid. Learning how to teach is part of learning how to be a black belt, and is a normal part of earning a higher rank. its part of learning, and at this point, you should be either attending an advanced level class that you aren't teaching, or getting private lessons from your instructor. You shouldn't be teaching unsupervised yet. Just because you're teaching, it doesn't mean that your instructor doesn't have to be there. You're like a student teacher at this point, and need supervision and guidence.

teaching private lessons is something you should get paid for, if its something the student is paying extra for. You should get at least half the fee that the student pays the instructor, because in this case, you're the one doing the work.
 

michaeledward

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Not everyone can teach. Nor should they be expected to. I am a professional teacher (I teach music, computer software, manufacturing processes & fishing), and I know there are bad teachers out there, people who are completely understand a subject and can process all the information well, but they can not transfer that information.

I would really hate to be paying a full tuition price, only to have class with an excellent 1st degree brownbelt that is a lousy teacher, but they have to teach to get their black.

I agree that when we are forced to teach someone else, our understanding grows ... but that is not a sufficient justification for bad instruction.
 

Nightingale

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that is precicely why the instructor should be present whenever a brown belt is teaching. To prevent bad instruction from taking place, and to assist when necessary to insure that all benefit.
 

Cthulhu

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1) Are you being charged tuition to teach?
2) Are the students you're teaching bringing any money into the school (for what you are teaching)?

Cthulhu
 
T

TJH

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I make it a policy to keep school business in the school, but I feel that this is an exception. I'm Ace's teacher and this thread is disturbing. I have several things to say.

1. Ace NEVER said a word to me about this. I had just gotten back from a one week business trip and saw the thread on the net.

2. As some people have posted on this thread, Ace may see a lot of money changing hands, but he has no clue as to what the bills are.

3. Ace teaches two grappling classes a week which is by his request. In addition, these classes only have two students that come regularly.

4. Ace has not had to pay for classes for the last three years and seminars in the school for the past year.

5. Black Belt classes are offered three times a week. He chose not to participate in them until it was near time for testing.

The list can go on but I don't want to turn this into a crying session. I have watched this thread for some time now and I see people telling him what he should ask for and are very supportive of him in this. My only point here is to illustrate that there is another side of the story and not all the facts have been given.
 

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