First Aid/CPR

[Rob Broad]

I was talking to a buddy the other day and he says atleast one student in every school should have First Aid & CPR training. I agreed to a point. I say every person who steps on the floor in an instructor or assistant instructor role should have this training. What do you think?

 

[Martial Tucker]

I was talking to a buddy the other day and he says atleast one student in every school should have First Aid & CPR training. I agreed to a point. I say every person who steps on the floor in an instructor or assistant instructor role should have this training. What do you think?

I totally agree. I have both, and I wish more people would get training. Aside from the dojang, it's a very good feeling to know that you have the ability to help out if you happen upon an emergency situation. This has happened to me numerous times over the years.
Our school Master is a doctor by day, so that makes it a non-issue when he is in the house. The one thing that I am not qualified to do, that I would like to be able to do is an emergency "trache" procedure if someone suffers a significant throat trauma that affect their ability to breathe. This is certainly a possible scenario in a dojang....I have read about how to do it with any handy sharp-pointed object, but that doesnt make me comfortable or proficient by any means.

 

[MA-Caver]

Totally agree here. At least one or two instructors (or even students) should have certified First-aid/First Responder/ CPR training at all times during school hours. Injuries can and have occurred in many a dojo, this we all know. Having a trained first-aider/responder there at the scene will help out a lot and make a good initial assessment on whether or not to call 911 or just take the injured to the hospital themselves, i.e. a broken arm/limb/nose can be transported by private car.
Inviting a certified first-aid/CPR instructor for the err, instructors at least once a year is a good idea. Because c'est la vie said the old folks, goes to show you never can tell.

:asian:

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Inviting a certified first-aid/CPR instructor for the err, instructors at least once a year is a good idea. Because c'est la vie said the old folks, goes to show you never can tell.

:asian:

Oh absolutely, i am required by some of the studios i teach in to have at least the CPR requirement. Next year i'll go for the first aid portion as well. I think it is a great idea to have a certified instructor into the school to renew certifications. Ya' never know!

Donna :asian:

 

[Ceicei]

I think all instructors should know and be certified in first aid/CPR. Injuries can happen when doing martial arts and it would be good to be able to assess injury severity and know what needs to be done. If its a large school, it is not a bad idea for other dojo staff to have first aid/CPR training too. Once certified, it is ideal to have refresher/recertification on a yearly basis.

Knowing that the instructors are trained will help reassure parents of students and adult students.

Sometimes business/school insurance do allow discounts if people running the business/school are trained.

- Ceicei

 

[Tgace]

I think that whoever trains in methods to injure should also be trained in methods to heal/provide aid.

 

[Rob Broad]

I used to have First Aid and Cpr as requirements for 3rd degree brown belt. I would bring in a teacher and he would do a weekend class for anyone needing certification or re-certification.

 

[Matt Stone]

I'm AHA certified for Basic Life Support for healthcare providers, AED certified, just finished AHA BLS-Instructor certification Friday (so I can teach and certify BLS and all levels below it, e.g. Heartsavers, CPR for Friends and Family, etc.), and I am a nationally certified EMT-B.

Additionally, our school/style requires "traditional" healing methods be learned by "black belt" (we call them "seniors") level... Massage, acupuncture/acupressure, qigong, Chinese herbology, etc.

Our folks are usually in pretty good hands. The fact that many of our students also possess advanced medical training of one kind or another is good, too...

 

[Mark Weiser]

I have this covered I am a LPN in Kansas and the Instructor at my school.

 

[Flatlander]

A recent thread discussing this from General Self Defence:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15707

Only real contribution I could make here.

 

[MA-Caver]

I think all instructors should know and be certified in first aid/CPR. Injuries can happen when doing martial arts and it would be good to be able to assess injury severity and know what needs to be done. If its a large school, it is not a bad idea for other dojo staff to have first aid/CPR training too. Once certified, it is ideal to have refresher/recertification on a yearly basis.

Knowing that the instructors are trained will help reassure parents of students and adult students.

Sometimes business/school insurance do allow discounts if people running the business/school are trained.

- Ceicei

Right, but it also I think beneficial that the students have first-aid/CPR training as well. One year in Washington D.C. I got caught out on the streets late at night past the time the public transport runs. I had to hoof it back 20 blocks to my college where I was attending at the time.
I was accousted by someone (this is the NW section of the city, btw) and was placed in a SD position. Fortunately my attacker was drunk and more fortunate he was alone. I incapacitated him with a simple palm sword slice across his adams apple. Turns out that I went either too deep or too hard and he was lying there struggling to breathe.
Well, crap could I just leave him there and possibly die. Under other circumstances I probably would've. But that night he was lucky. I managed to do CPR on him (NOT very pleasant when the victim is drunk and hadn't bathed or brushed his teeth in god knows HOW long :barf: ) until a cruiser passed by, whipped around and pulled over. Seeing them I explained I "happened across this guy and he didn't seem to be breathing. They took over emergency medical treatment and in the hubbub of the ambulance and growing curiosity seekers in the neighborhood I managed to slip away.
I did that because I didn't want to be questioned as to HOW he got that way in the first place.
Any way the guy could've died had I not done what my training had taught me.
We are trained to defend ourselves but it makes good sense to be able to have the training to umm, correct our mis-calculations shall we call it?
Also another (this time hypothetical) scenario is that you are defending your loved one and/or friends and one of them gets hurt seriously enough to warrant immeidate first-aid treatment. Well you're there aren't you?
Even if not in a SD situation... hey it's good to know first-aid and CPR right?

 

[Stick Dummy]

FWIW - Traches are bad news, a surgical proceedure, contrary to popular belief. It is far better and safer to inubate either orally or nasally that start cutting in a high risk area surrounded by major blood vessels.

MAcaver - CPR on a person with a blocked airway via throat trauma - again chest compressions on a still beating heart?????? SCARY THOUGHT

This ain't no disco, this ain't no playing around, you're dealing with another life and you better know what the #$%^ you are doing.

Get the CPR training, use the CPR training, and re-certify at least annually.

 

[Matt Stone]

Was MACaver doing CPR or rescue breathing?

If there is severe throat trauma that would preclude the patient from breathing, I'm not sure what help rescue breathing would provide... Rapid 911 assistance and a paramedic to run the tracheotomy would likely be his best chance for survival...

MACaver, CPR is the chest compression part... You NEVER want to do chest compressions when the patient's heart is still beating (you'll cause it to stop, and then you're in a real mess...).

Folks too often say one thing and mean another. They need to pay more attention and use the right terms, right phrases, and right descriptions instead of just assuming folks know what they mean...

 

[mj-hi-yah]

First let me say that I have always and will always help people in need, so I'm just playing devil's advocate here for a minute...there are so many liability issues these days and people bring lawsuits for all kinds of crazy things. I've heard that people with CPR training can be held accountable for an unfavorable outcome after they administer CPR. As teachers in someone else's school what kink of responsibility should we have and how do we find out if we are covered if a student in a class that we teach becomes injured and decides to name us in a suit?

 

[Taimishu]

"MACaver, CPR is the chest compression part... You NEVER want to do chest compressions when the patient's heart is still beating (you'll cause it to stop, and then you're in a real mess...)."

The "C" in cpr is the chest compression the"P" is the pulmonary (rescue breathing) element.
In the UK there are degrees of first aid from appointed person to first aid at work/HSE.
All require testing/retraining at regular intervals, usually every 3 years.
This can be a very complex issue and here all qualified instructors are required to have at least basic first aid training.

David

 

[Kenpo Mama]

MJ - good question, since i recently renewed my CPR certification with Red Cross and having the booklet handy i can tell you that the first few items in the booklet are about protecting yourself - basically Good Samaritan Laws in the US which were enacted to give legal protection to people who willingly provide emergency care to ill or injured persons without accepting anything in return. There is much more info in the booklet and the laws vary state to state. You must always obtain consent from the victim or if the victim is unconscious consent is implied.

If something goes very wrong due to carelessness on the part of the instructor and you are an unpaid teacher or teaching as a requirement for advancement, then i would check to see with your instructor if you are covered under his liability insurance. Personally i carry my own insurance because i teach other classes as well. It is not that expensive. I will PM you with further information on this as well as info on liability as an instuctor. Hope this helps.

Donna :asian:

 

[Spud]

First let me say that I have always and will always help people in need, so I'm just playing devil's advocate here for a minute...there are so many liability issues these days and people bring lawsuits for all kinds of crazy things. I've heard that people with CPR training can be held accountable for an unfavorable outcome after they administer CPR. As teachers in someone else's school what kink of responsibility should we have and how do we find out if we are covered if a student in a class that we teach becomes injured and decides to name us in a suit?

Good samaritan laws protect us from that nonsense. Arguably, if you are performing CPR, the dude is dead.

When people make the big leap from doing CPR to attempting to defibulate with a car battery or a tracheaotomy with a corkscrew is when you find yourself outside good samaritan protection.

Donna - I'll go out on a limb and say good samaritan laws also cover instructors just as they cover designated first aid providers for an office or construction site. In the 3 states I'm familiar with the laws also cover Paramedics, firefighters, nurses and doctors - although certain medical providers are also governed by other laws as well. The question of providing care to the level of training and resources at hand comes into play for the designated EMS and medical providers and depends upon the situation.

 

[Tgace]

Just completed my OC spray instructor cert. course today, I think I need some first-aid... IT BURNS!!! IT BURNS!!!

To stay on topic...things like the effects of weapons, sprays etc. on the body and how to deal with them should be a must have if you want to be "well rounded".

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Just completed my OC spray instructor cert. course today, I think I need some first-aid... IT BURNS!!! IT BURNS!!!

To stay on topic...things like the effects of weapons, sprays etc. on the body and how to deal with them should be a must have if you want to be "well rounded".

Thanks Spud and Donna I think I'll be a Good Samaritan now and give Tgace a hand since he won't be able to take me to court afterwards! :cheers: No hose smileys all I got is some beer to throw your way!

 

[Spud]

Add basic blood born pathogens to what Tgace just said.