Felons and voting rights

[punisher73]

Not to derail the other voter thread, a colleague and I were talking the other day about how in Michigan, convicted felons loose the right to vote.

Heres the question: Not talking about felons still in jail/prison since their "debt to society" has not yet been paid, but is taking away a felon's right to vote wrong?

If the felon has paid their for their crime and then gets a job and is a contributing member of society, is it wrong for them not to have a voice on how their taxes etc. are spent?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Good question. Before giving my opinion, here is a list of states that have laws regarding the voting rights of former felons:

http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000286

If this is correct, people released from prison can vote in Michigan. Not sure.

Here is an interesting story on the subject:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9785-2004Aug17.html

The 14th Amendment permits states to deny the vote "for participation in rebellion, or other crime." And it can be argued that prisoners should not vote; after all, the purpose of prison is to deny freedom. But with ex-cons, the argument shifts.
Some say those who break the law lack the trustworthiness to make it. Todd Gaziano of the Heritage Foundation argues that felons might form some kind of "anti-law-enforcement bloc" and elect bad officials. But last year Alabama Republican Party Chairman Marty Connors stated a bald truth: "As frank as I can be," he said, "we're opposed to [restoring voting rights] because felons don't tend to vote Republican." He is right: People with low incomes, low education or minority status -- all benchmarks of convict populations -- vote Democratic 65 to 90 percent of the time.
Another bald fact: Many disenfranchisement laws trace to the mid-1800s, when they were crafted to bar blacks with even minor criminal records from polls.

To be honest, I have never given the matter much thought. I know that felons and former felons are barred from a number of civil rights, including the 2nd Amendment, and I certainly don't want ex-felons buying guns legally (not that this stops those who really want guns, of course).

Voting? Well, the Washington Post makes a good point. I guess I could understand why voting rights should be restored upon release from prison. I don't think I would oppose it.

 

[Sensei Payne]

Once the Debt has been paid to socity i feel that all rights should be restored.

ONLY ONE CONCESSION

Those who commited violent crimes, should NOT be able to own a firearm...UNLESS that violent crime was a plea bargain. For Example: Self Defense (but really in those cases you shouldn't be convicted anyways) for lack of a better example The "ConAir" type of jail time...accidental killing in self defense, etc

 

[Empty Hands]

If your sentence is done, then it should be done. Additional punishments should not be handed out after a sentence is served, I believe that should be unconstitutional, although of course I know the courts disagree.

On a broader note, how can we ever expect ex-cons to fit back into society and leave crime behind if we block all avenues for making a legitimate living? It's obvious we don't really desire rehabilitation as a society.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Once the Debt has been paid to socity i feel that all rights should be restored.

ONLY ONE CONCESSION

Those who commited violent crimes, should NOT be able to own a firearm...UNLESS that violent crime was a plea bargain. For Example: Self Defense (but really in those cases you shouldn't be convicted anyways) for lack of a better example The "ConAir" type of jail time...accidental killing in self defense, etc

Can child molesters get jobs as teachers or priests or scoutmasters or martial arts instructors again?

 

[Blade96]

Once the Debt has been paid to socity i feel that voting rights should be restored.

Here's how i feel.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Here's how i feel.

Prisoners are allowed to vote in Canada.

 

[Blade96]

Prisoners are allowed to vote in Canada.

Yeah, but he's talking about michigan.

 

[Twin Fist]

right to vote........hmmm.............



there is a price to pay for the mistakes we make, some are far reaching....


plus lets get real, it aint like felons are the voting type anyway.....

 

[Ken Morgan]

Yeah, but he's talking about michigan.

do you agree with them being allowed to vote in canada too?

 

[punisher73]

Yeah, but he's talking about michigan.

Not just in Michigan, but here in the US or Canada. If prisoners can vote in Canada, do you agree with it? Do you think that while incarcerated they should lose that ability?

 

[Blade96]

Not just in Michigan, but here in the US or Canada. If prisoners can vote in Canada, do you agree with it? Do you think that while incarcerated they should lose that ability?

as ken said prisoners can vote. But I think when your paying a debt to society you obviously lose certain rights. I think give em their vote back when they're completed their sentence.

 

[granfire]

there are felonies and there are felonies.

I suppose it would depend on the severity of the crim whether or not voting rights ought to be restored.

 

[Ken Morgan]

there are felonies and there are felonies.

I suppose it would depend on the severity of the crim whether or not voting rights ought to be restored.

But does that not create different levels of citizenship? while at the same time differnet levels of more "acceptable" crimes?

 

[Sensei Payne]

Can child molesters get jobs as teachers or priests or scoutmasters or martial arts instructors again?

No, because those are not a RIGHT. Voting doesn't put children at Risk.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

there is a price to pay for the mistakes we make, some are far reaching....

Agreed, but it seems to me that the 'price' felons pay is more about protecting society than continuing to punish them once their sentences are finished. I can easily understand prohibitions on firearm ownership, for example. Even lifetime registration of sex offenders to some extent. But I'm not clear on how denying the right to vote protects society, and I'm not particularly interested in continuing to punish former felons for the sake of 'making them pay for their crimes'.

plus lets get real, it aint like felons are the voting type anyway.....

Even if true, I think denying rights on the basis that they don't use those rights is weak.

I honestly had no opinion on this until the thread came up and I started reading about the history of why felons had their voting rights restricted. I had no idea it started in the south as a means to deny black people the right to vote. I never stopped to think that with such a high proportion of black men in prison versus white men, it had the net effect of denying the vote to a group as opposed to just a single person. When I read the 2004 quote in the Washington Post:

"Alabama Republican Party Chairman Marty Connors stated a bald truth: "As frank as I can be," he said, "we're opposed to [restoring voting rights] because felons don't tend to vote Republican.""

That kind of crystallized it for me. I can't say I'll be out beating on the band wagon for this, or writing my elected representatives, but at the same time, if the law were changed, I don't think I have a problem with that. As much as I can say I'm not thrilled about adding to the voice of the Democratic Party, I am also not thrilled about the idea of changing the voting demographic by denying the right to vote on what essentially appears to be a political basis, not a law enforcement basis.

 

[granfire]

But does that not create different levels of citizenship? while at the same time differnet levels of more "acceptable" crimes?

Well, there are different levels of citizens: those who obey the laws, and those who don't.

And the list goes on and on.


To be honest, I have not given it too much thought. Maybe a far more important issue would be if they may be run for any type of office again!

(and just because some backwoods hick thinks like billi, that all criminals are by deefault democrats does not really mean a thing, plenty of crooks are indeed republicans)