Fat kid has had enough

[MA-Caver]

Ritchard the rat speaks up
Hmmm. Due to first hand experience, I can actually make reasonable guesses at body language in cases like this, and I really don't see Casey as someone who would push people around. He may have told him to go to class and leave him alone and tried to walk past him.

The fact that he was pissed off that someone was talking back really paint him as a) someone is not used to be talked back to and b) he saw it as cause for violence.

He didn't know. Hm... Perhaps. That doesn't make his actions better.
Casey's behavior screams out low self esteem, while his is alpha male. this may have been the first time he took on Casey but they both have been in that situation before.

Interesting. This almost seems as if his change of heart did not come from empathy with the bullies, but from the realization that people being bullied might suddenly snap and piledrive the bully into the concrete.

Either he has come to terms with his public humiliation and takes it all in good spirit, or he mentally added 'at least not when people are looking'.

I saw the same interview... and it got me wondering... now it's a case of he said -- he said. So the truth of the matter may never be known.

But I don't think that it was a case of alpha male but more of two betas just having a bad day. Watch the interview with Richard you can see that he is contrite, sorrowful and all of that... he is being vilified by the entire planet, that is not a good thing either. This is still just a kid. A punk kid like I said but still a kid and still deserving some understanding... particularly if his background is what the report says it is.

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Two hard luck kids getting through a rough life just take it out on each other.

So basically what needs to be addressed here is not WHICH kid was wrong... but WHY they snapped... how long have they been under pressure and just how little of a thing can set them off.

Remember the reasons Eric and Dylan had when they unleased themselves on Coloumbine, they were allegedly bullied as well.

 

[shesulsa]

I'm not buying it.

When you look at the video, the little guy is repeatedly taunting - not just punching, taunting - the bigger kid. If the little guy has been bullied before and has now become the bully, I can get that. But in this instance, he *asked* for what he got.

I think bullies generally speak only one language - and until you speak it to them, they are not likely to get your message.

 

[K831]

he is being vilified by the entire planet, that is not a good thing either. This is still just a kid. A punk kid like I said but still a kid and still deserving some understanding... particularly if his background is what the report says it is.



Remember the reasons Eric and Dylan had when they unleased themselves on Coloumbine, they were allegedly bullied as well.

I agree with this for the most part. The kid got what he deserved when he got his a$$ handed to him in front of everyone. Casey stuck up for himself, and, if he is left alone going forward, then it is done. I agree, being a bully at that age doesn't mean you should have your life ruined on a global scale for the rest of your life.

I also believe that you can take quick, decisive violent action without losing empathy/sympathy. As I said in an earlier post, I recognize that someone who tries to commit violence on me or my family may well be doing so in part because of all manner of tragedy and pain in their life.. I am sympathetic to that and will remain so while ending the threat.

I feel the same way about the Coloumbine kids you mentioned. I'm sure they were bullied for years, and its not surprising they got to the point they did... however, I would have shot them if I was there, with sympathy, but killed them none the less. I remember when their tapes and diaries came out, many people said no amount of bullying justifies killing someone. That's dumb, because when it comes right down to it, what "justifies" what, only really matters as it applies to the person taking the action. That's why many people should be more judicious in how they treat others...it might just get ugly.

 

[MA-Caver]

I agree with this for the most part. The kid got what he deserved when he got his a$$ handed to him in front of everyone. Casey stuck up for himself, and, if he is left alone going forward, then it is done. I agree, being a bully at that age doesn't mean you should have your life ruined on a global scale for the rest of your life.

I also believe that you can take quick, decisive violent action without losing empathy/sympathy. As I said in an earlier post, I recognize that someone who tries to commit violence on me or my family may well be doing so in part because of all manner of tragedy and pain in their life.. I am sympathetic to that and will remain so while ending the threat.

I feel the same way about the Coloumbine kids you mentioned. I'm sure they were bullied for years, and its not surprising they got to the point they did... however, I would have shot them if I was there, with sympathy, but killed them none the less. I remember when their tapes and diaries came out, many people said no amount of bullying justifies killing someone. That's dumb, because when it comes right down to it, what "justifies" what, only really matters as it applies to the person taking the action. That's why many people should be more judicious in how they treat others...it might just get ugly.

OH I absolutely agree here with you... whatever your problems ARE your problems... just don't make 'em mine because I got enough of my own, and if you want to take it out on me... well, allow me to reciprocate.

Yet should the a level of violence be met equally? In the case of Coloumbine definitely, because dead is dead and that is what those two guys were wanting to have and be.
But I've had people walk up to me, grab my shirt/coat and threaten all manner of hurt against my person. Often times I stood there and asked them to remove their hand off of me or suffer. Must've been intimidating enough (or a crazed look in my eyes behind a calm veneer face)... I'm of mind to allow a person (that I know) one hit so that I may call it self-defense, otherwise it's just bunch of tough guy rhetoric to me. It's been the extreme rare cases where someone actually (try) carried out what they said they would do to me. However; if I don't know you then you touch me at your peril.

These two kids only gotten global attention thanks to the internet and folks passing it on to the next exponentially. Otherwise we'd probably never heard about it. It does help raise questions and spark good discussions on the more honorable forums like MT :uhyeah:

I hope things will get better for the two of them. Irony may play out that these two become friends.
We'll see.

 

[Balrog]

Why do schools have the policy of having someone who acted in self defense from a bully get suspended also?

Because implementing a zero-tolerance policy absolves the school management and the school boards from having to actually think and make decisions and go on the record about incidents. :soapbox:

 

[Balrog]

Ritchard the rat speaks up...
Either he has come to terms with his public humiliation and takes it all in good spirit, or he mentally added 'at least not when people are looking'.

I call ********.

He's saying all those things because he was stupid enough to be a bully; he got his sorry little *** whipped and exposed in public. He's trying to save face. I'll bet a dollar that he'll be back picking on someone within a month.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm not buying it.

When you look at the video, the little guy is repeatedly taunting - not just punching, taunting - the bigger kid. If the little guy has been bullied before and has now become the bully, I can get that. But in this instance, he *asked* for what he got.

I think bullies generally speak only one language - and until you speak it to them, they are not likely to get your message.

You should buy it, to some extent. People with victim mentalities tend to see themselves as a victim, and they lash out at people to boot. What's not to buy?
Sean

 

[Makalakumu]

I've been bullied in school. I've stood up for myself. And I've had my *** handed to me in a fight.

That said, I watched the slam and my first thought was, whoa, kid almost broke that other kid's neck. That's a big deal, no matter how you slice it.

With that in mind, consider the value of the "do" martial arts. Most the deadly techniques have been taken out so that they can be practiced as a sport and not cause serious injury. Judo is a great example of this. I took this art when I was in middle school and I didn't get bullied very much because bullies would end up on their asses. They had to get a couple of friends to do the job. The same goes with karate.

After training with the authentic application for karate kata and after taking jujutsu and seeing the damage that can be done with certain techniques, I can't look at this video without giving some credit to the old masters who initially changed the arts to make them more appropriate for children. I think they understood that there was a time and a place for children to defend themselves and they also wanted them to be able to do it so that offenders got a second chance.

They are kids, they don't deserve to die.

Perhaps this attitude comes from a time when violence was much more common and the results of violence were more visible. I don't know. I do know, that as a parent, I would want my children to defend themselves and not put the other person's life at risk needlessly.

Another lesson to draw from this is that the next time people want to bash "watered down" martial arts, well, this video is a good reason to water down an art. It's the responsible thing to do when we are dealing with kids.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I agree with not teaching young kids some of the more nastier stuff, like onikudaki or ganseki nage. Onikudaki performed correctly with full power on a person is like tearing a wing off a chicken. And Ganseki was designed to pile drive someone into the ground, head first.

I am teaching my kids basic self techniques. And especially my youngest (3 years) likes boxing and kicking. Kids should be able to defend themselves, yet otoh kids will also get into fights when they are kids. My youngest has a brawl with one of the other kids in kindergarten every day, as some kids are wont to do. She is a head shorter than average, and I have told her several times that if someone hits her, she can hit back.

Among kids this type of thing is harmless as long as no bullying is going on. If both kids are at the same level, I am not too worried. In that context, I don't want any nasty stuff because that can leave permanent damage. This is why in Genbukan, kids are taught jujutsu instead of ninpo, and their curriculum consists of the basics that everyone needs, without some of the nastier stuff. They only get the complete teachings from age 14 or so.

 

[oaktree]

I was given a negative rep.

Dumbest pile of crap I have read, you reason like as well as a newborn tomato plant.. lame

I am ok if you disagree with my opinion at least be respectful in addressing it.
Also the person who gave me a negative rep can you at least say your name it comes off kinda of cowardly to use ad hominem and then lurk back in the shadows.

 

[shesulsa]

I was given a negative rep.


I am ok if you disagree with my opinion at least be respectful in addressing it.
Also the person who gave me a negative rep can you at least say your name it comes off kinda of cowardly to use ad hominem and then lurk back in the shadows.

Just so you know - all commentary, all written words on this site are subject to the rules for conduct. If you find any comments sent to you in any way - be it by rep comment, private message, visitor message or forum post - outside the guidelines of conduct here (and this might be) you should report it to a staff member right away. That would be anyone with a badge that says MOD, Sr. MOD, Supermod, Assist. Admin. or Administrator.

Personal insults are not allowed.

 

[dancingalone]

Because implementing a zero-tolerance policy absolves the school management and the school boards from having to actually think and make decisions and go on the record about incidents. :soapbox:

I would further add that much of the time these policies are meant to protect the school from legal and criminal proceedings. They are not written for the benefit of the children.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I was given a negative rep.


I am ok if you disagree with my opinion at least be respectful in addressing it.
Also the person who gave me a negative rep can you at least say your name it comes off kinda of cowardly to use ad hominem and then lurk back in the shadows.

Happens to me all the time.

 

[shesulsa]

You should buy it, to some extent. People with victim mentalities tend to see themselves as a victim, and they lash out at people to boot. What's not to buy?
Sean

I am aware of the victim mentality ... and if this kid was bullied previously, he has certainly come to another unhealthy point and the way he *taunted* and *taunted* and *taunted* and played to the camera tells me a different story. And even if it can still be argued that he might have been a victim previously, his entire message to people who would bully others was that if they do they might get hurt like him.

Not that it's wrong and that he's been on both sides, etcetera, but that you might get hurt if you bully someone.

That last statement is why I don't buy it - coming from *him* I *don't* buy it.