Family related techniques in tracy kenpo

KENPOJOE

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Hi folks!
As of late, I've been researching the tracy system and working on the curriculum so I will have a more thourough understanding of the style when speaking to tracy kenpo practitioners. It's obvious that the element of "Family related" techniques is prevalent in the Tracy system as well as Mr. Parker's [given the obvious lineage]. I wanted to ask any tracy people on the board which relationships have you seen and I'll mention some of the ones I've found!
Thank you for your time,
KENPOJOE
 

Danjo

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Hi folks!
As of late, I've been researching the tracy system and working on the curriculum so I will have a more thourough understanding of the style when speaking to tracy kenpo practitioners. It's obvious that the element of "Family related" techniques is prevalent in the Tracy system as well as Mr. Parker's [given the obvious lineage]. I wanted to ask any tracy people on the board which relationships have you seen and I'll mention some of the ones I've found!
Thank you for your time,
KENPOJOE

Who are you studying Tracy Kenpo under?
 

Danjo

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I always thought Kenpo Joe did the Tracy system way back. Thought I noticed a Tracy System diploma on the wall behind him in some of his videos.

-R

Still doesn't answer the question of who he studied under.
 

Touch Of Death

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While things may be family related in motion, each tech is situation specific; so, attention must be payed to family related situations.Training motion related techs together, may be an easyway of training for memorization, but its not logic related training. Just a thought.:ultracool
Sean
 

Danjo

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Yep, that's true. Just because something is in the same "Family", doesn't make it the same thing. Nor does having an 8th degree in one version of Kenpo (or 15 versions or whatever), mean that one has an 8th degree in all of them.

Good to have a hobby though.
 

Touch Of Death

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Yep, that's true. Just because something is in the same "Family", doesn't make it the same thing. Nor does having an 8th degree in one version of Kenpo (or 15 versions or whatever), mean that one has an 8th degree in all of them.

Good to have a hobby though.
If you are truly an eighth degree, I'm sure it gives you a bit of insight into the other variations, but you are prolly thinking like an eighth in your own system.
Sean
 

Danjo

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If you are truly an eighth degree, I'm sure it gives you a bit of insight into the other variations, but you are prolly thinking like an eighth in your own system.
Sean

To me being an 8th represents a huge amount of time in both learning and teaching others. I think it would be the exceptionally rare individual that would legitimately hold more than one, much less several.
 

Flying Crane

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I think it would be the exceptionally rare individual that would legitimately hold more than one, much less several.

I don't disagree with you, but I'll say that this issue has been hashed out at length in other threads. Maybe we don't have to go down that road again here.

That being said, I think it is an interesting question to ask, with whom is Kenpojoe studying Tracy kenpo? There are exceptionally good instructors teaching Tracy kenpo, and there are exceptionally poor "instructors" teaching Tracy kenpo, and everyone in between. It would be interesting to know where he is getting his information.

Personally, I have enough trouble and frustration keeping up with just one kenpo system. I don't have any interest myself in learning another branch of kenpo, much less ALL THINGS KENPO out there in the world. I don't see the value in it, other than on a purely academic and historical level. That's just me, tho.
 

Danjo

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I don't disagree with you, but I'll say that this issue has been hashed out at length in other threads. Maybe we don't have to go down that road again here.

That being said, I think it is an interesting question to ask, with whom is Kenpojoe studying Tracy kenpo? There are exceptionally good instructors teaching Tracy kenpo, and there are exceptionally poor "instructors" teaching Tracy kenpo, and everyone in between. It would be interesting to know where he is getting his information.

Personally, I have enough trouble and frustration keeping up with just one kenpo system. I don't have any interest myself in learning another branch of kenpo, much less ALL THINGS KENPO out there in the world. I don't see the value in it, other than on a purely academic and historical level. That's just me, tho.


I agree. The original question is just what you said. Kenpo Joe Rebelo: Who is/was your Tracy Kenpo teacher(s)?
 

Flying Crane

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In response to the initial post, in my experience we have not generally referred to "family related" techniques. We just haven't discussed it in such terms. I think there are a lot of ways one might categorize a "family". It could be attack-specific, meaning all punch defenses, or all choke defenses. It could be more specific, such as all defenses against a right punch from the front, or all defenses against a right punch from the right side. Or it could be a categorization of techs based on defense against a certain attack with comonalities, such as Windmill Guard, Dropping the Staff, and Breaking the Staff all begin in a similar way as defenses against a right punch from the front.

A whole lot of ways one might categorize these things, so I think we'd be talking about a lot of personal interpretation in how that might be done...
 
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KENPOJOE

KENPOJOE

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Hi folks!
Gee,I get back on Martialtalk and ask a simple question and the accursed "Danjo" rears his ugly [and bald] head! LOL!
Seriously I've had more than my fair share of "discussions" w/Dan So,I'm not surprised that rather than answer the question [which he basically can't because he doesn't do tracy kenpo or a variation thereof] So, he goes on the tangent of attempting [sadly] to focus on who taught me tracy kenpo.
So.Here we go.
I never said that I was studying tracy kenpo with anyone.
I have been researching Tracy kenpo since the mid 1990's when I met a tracy kenpo black belt & studio owner Jon Deluca of Springfield,MA
He had attended one of the AOL Grandstand forum "Mail Call/Kathy's Expresso Bar [a martial arts forum on aol]" get together at my studio in New Bedford,MA and we went over the tracy material to se the similarities of the two styles.
Since that time, I have had the honor and privilage of interviewing Mr. Al Tracy for my television program in whittenville,MA at Rob Weyer's Tracy studio. When Mr. Tracy realized I had no "aganda" other than speaking with him about his martial arts career,we spoke for several hours.
He encouraged me to attend the first "Gathering of the eagles" in 1999 and I have attended each one of them. Subsiquently, he honored me by asking me to be one of the featured instructors at the GOTE event.
In 2007 he further honored me by inducting me in the Inaugual "Kenpo Hall of Fame" as well as Induct me into the Kenpo "Yudanshakai" {Black Belt Society}
Many people have assisted me in learning more about the tracy system such as GM David German,jon Deluca as well as others who have passed along to me copies of the tracy manuals,VHS tapes and Mr. Tracy passed along a copy to of the new quick reference DVD to assist me in my research.
I am extremely fortunate that these individuals see how passionate I am about my study of the various kenpo systems.
I've nver asked Mr. Tracy for rank nor would I be so impertinant [sp?]to do so without asking him directly. I refuse to do anything to do with tracy system unless I receive direct permission from the Tracy family.
I hope that I've answered Danjo's question because he was the only one to go off topic [no surprise]
 
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KENPOJOE

KENPOJOE

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In response to the initial post, in my experience we have not generally referred to "family related" techniques. We just haven't discussed it in such terms. I think there are a lot of ways one might categorize a "family". It could be attack-specific, meaning all punch defenses, or all choke defenses. It could be more specific, such as all defenses against a right punch from the front, or all defenses against a right punch from the right side. Or it could be a categorization of techs based on defense against a certain attack with comonalities, such as Windmill Guard, Dropping the Staff, and Breaking the Staff all begin in a similar way as defenses against a right punch from the front.

A whole lot of ways one might categorize these things, so I think we'd be talking about a lot of personal interpretation in how that might be done...
Hi folks!
I understand that in the Tracy system the term is not used, but if we look at the system itself,we see many similarites and differences.
A good example of a "family related technique" analogy would be to start at Chinese sword vs japanese sword.
Chinese sword "block in-chop out [lets say this male or brother]
Japanese sword "Block out-Chop in"[lets say this is female or sister]
we can then look at a technique like "delayed sword" and see the obvious relationship due to the 2 of the 3 components being in that technique and therefore "related". If we look at that concept, we see the parker technique of "sword of destruction" being no more than "Japanese sword with a kick".
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
 
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KENPOJOE

KENPOJOE

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I don't disagree with you, but I'll say that this issue has been hashed out at length in other threads. Maybe we don't have to go down that road again here.

That being said, I think it is an interesting question to ask, with whom is Kenpojoe studying Tracy kenpo? There are exceptionally good instructors teaching Tracy kenpo, and there are exceptionally poor "instructors" teaching Tracy kenpo, and everyone in between. It would be interesting to know where he is getting his information.

Personally, I have enough trouble and frustration keeping up with just one kenpo system. I don't have any interest myself in learning another branch of kenpo, much less ALL THINGS KENPO out there in the world. I don't see the value in it, other than on a purely academic and historical level. That's just me, tho.
Hi folks!
Dear Crane,
I respect your opinion in regards to how you chose to study and learn. If you are content to only study the Tracy System,COOL!
I don't ask people to be me or to attempt to comprehend how I can learn these various styles/systems. It's what I'vwe chosen to do. I simply do it because I can. If for whatever reasons other individuals cannot do that,it's not my fault they are unable to do so.Am I supposed to apologize for being intelligent. Am I supposed to play the martial arts version of "no child left behind" and patiently wait while other people catch up?
Am I supposed to fgeel bad about being inquisitive? To want to study various arts and disciplines searching for the similarities of those given arts? Should I swim in the muck and mire of mediocracy? No thanks,I didn't bring my water wings!LOL!
I go to events like the gathering of eagles to get greater insight into kenpo and I'm so fortunate to have met many people who were more thasn willing to share their knowlwdge of thweir given styles. How lucky am i?
:)
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
 

Entryteam

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Joe... just keep doing what you're doing, man.

I've perused the American System's reference manual myself just to see what it's like. No harm in it.

-R

Hi folks!
Dear Crane,
I respect your opinion in regards to how you chose to study and learn. If you are content to only study the Tracy System,COOL!
I don't ask people to be me or to attempt to comprehend how I can learn these various styles/systems. It's what I'vwe chosen to do. I simply do it because I can. If for whatever reasons other individuals cannot do that,it's not my fault they are unable to do so.Am I supposed to apologize for being intelligent. Am I supposed to play the martial arts version of "no child left behind" and patiently wait while other people catch up?
Am I supposed to fgeel bad about being inquisitive? To want to study various arts and disciplines searching for the similarities of those given arts? Should I swim in the muck and mire of mediocracy? No thanks,I didn't bring my water wings!LOL!
I go to events like the gathering of eagles to get greater insight into kenpo and I'm so fortunate to have met many people who were more thasn willing to share their knowlwdge of thweir given styles. How lucky am i?
:)
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE
 

Flying Crane

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Hi folks!
Dear Crane,
I respect your opinion in regards to how you chose to study and learn. If you are content to only study the Tracy System,COOL!
...
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

no worries, everyone has their own motivations for doing what they do.

I've spent years training in systems other than kenpo, done my own looking around to see and experience and gain some skills in whatever else is out there too. I actually do understand where you are coming from.

For myself, I guess I'm kind of going thru a period in my own training now where I'm feeling like "less is more", and I'm focusing down on what I really want to work on and not spending much time on other things. That's just where I am right now.
 

Entryteam

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no worries, everyone has their own motivations for doing what they do.

I've spent years training in systems other than kenpo, done my own looking around to see and experience and gain some skills in whatever else is out there too. I actually do understand where you are coming from.

For myself, I guess I'm kind of going thru a period in my own training now where I'm feeling like "less is more", and I'm focusing down on what I really want to work on and not spending much time on other things. That's just where I am right now.

"less is more" is my entire learning/coaching philosophy for brazilian jiujitsu. I'd rather have 20 attacks that i was phenomenal with, all of them basic, than a hundred different types of whizzbang crap that i can't ever use.

-R
 

Danjo

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Hi folks!
Gee,I get back on Martialtalk and ask a simple question and the accursed "Danjo" rears his ugly [and bald] head! LOL!
Seriously I've had more than my fair share of "discussions" w/Dan So,I'm not surprised that rather than answer the question [which he basically can't because he doesn't do tracy kenpo or a variation thereof] So, he goes on the tangent of attempting [sadly] to focus on who taught me tracy kenpo.
So.Here we go.
I never said that I was studying tracy kenpo with anyone.
I have been researching Tracy kenpo since the mid 1990's when I met a tracy kenpo black belt & studio owner Jon Deluca of Springfield,MA
He had attended one of the AOL Grandstand forum "Mail Call/Kathy's Expresso Bar [a martial arts forum on aol]" get together at my studio in New Bedford,MA and we went over the tracy material to se the similarities of the two styles.
Since that time, I have had the honor and privilage of interviewing Mr. Al Tracy for my television program in whittenville,MA at Rob Weyer's Tracy studio. When Mr. Tracy realized I had no "aganda" other than speaking with him about his martial arts career,we spoke for several hours.
He encouraged me to attend the first "Gathering of the eagles" in 1999 and I have attended each one of them. Subsiquently, he honored me by asking me to be one of the featured instructors at the GOTE event.
In 2007 he further honored me by inducting me in the Inaugual "Kenpo Hall of Fame" as well as Induct me into the Kenpo "Yudanshakai" {Black Belt Society}
Many people have assisted me in learning more about the tracy system such as GM David German,jon Deluca as well as others who have passed along to me copies of the tracy manuals,VHS tapes and Mr. Tracy passed along a copy to of the new quick reference DVD to assist me in my research.
I am extremely fortunate that these individuals see how passionate I am about my study of the various kenpo systems.
I've nver asked Mr. Tracy for rank nor would I be so impertinant [sp?]to do so without asking him directly. I refuse to do anything to do with tracy system unless I receive direct permission from the Tracy family.
I hope that I've answered Danjo's question because he was the only one to go off topic [no surprise]

Wow, you sure like to take things personally. You'd think that a person with your movie star good looks wouldn't be so insecure about answering questions from some ugly bald guy like me.

All I asked was who you were training under. Then me and a couple of others got into a conversation about the philosophy of the merits of having multiple high ranks etc.

You act as though you were being attacked for some reason. Oh well.

Despite your name calling, I wanted to thank you for clearing up the issue I asked about.
 

Danjo

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Hi folks!
Dear Crane,
I respect your opinion in regards to how you chose to study and learn. If you are content to only study the Tracy System,COOL!
I don't ask people to be me or to attempt to comprehend how I can learn these various styles/systems. It's what I'vwe chosen to do. I simply do it because I can. If for whatever reasons other individuals cannot do that,it's not my fault they are unable to do so.Am I supposed to apologize for being intelligent. Am I supposed to play the martial arts version of "no child left behind" and patiently wait while other people catch up?
Am I supposed to fgeel bad about being inquisitive? To want to study various arts and disciplines searching for the similarities of those given arts? Should I swim in the muck and mire of mediocracy? No thanks,I didn't bring my water wings!LOL!
I go to events like the gathering of eagles to get greater insight into kenpo and I'm so fortunate to have met many people who were more thasn willing to share their knowlwdge of thweir given styles. How lucky am i?
:)
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Nothing wrong with looking at different systems and continual learning. Not sure how that relates to the issue of putting on high ranks in various systems, but what the heck? If they're passing them out like that (even from beyond the grave etc.) then why not? I'm sure some get bored wearing the same old belt over and over again. Like I said, everyone needs a hobby.
 

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