Evidence based training vs faith based training.

[FriedRice]

I have no idea how this paragraph is a response to what I said. I know you guys think non mma folk get annoyed because we deep down no were wrong etc. But really it is this nonsense. You are addressing someone who largely agrees with you, but the slightest variation away from your opinion and your making assumptions about my training, about my beliefs, and a simple idea like "making too many assumptions is bad", or there are variations on the idea of free fighting that can work as training", can't even begin to penetrate.

Sorry, I don't exactly remember who you are nor your overall stance on this type of argument. I merely went by this post of yours that I was debating and often times, I get too thorough with the argument.

That is why people get annoyed and drop out. Learn how to discuss by considering what is being said, not just bludgeon with an opinion.

I have already agreed that live fight training is the pinnacle of the skill building in a martial art, but for you a ring and gloves with a ref and predetermined start conditions is the only way. Fine, but for those who look at ma for self defense (which the first video isn't, not sure about the second), there are other things to consider and other ways to develop those skills.

But see, here's where we don't agree and it's significant. You somehow think that a Sports Fighter wouldn't have the training to beat the rap out of some average dummy in the street, way better than your average Self Defense Practitioner who've only trained with light to medium power striking.... of whatever techniques you train. I've started out in TMA for many years, which included Self Defense...and it's mostly, pretend-fighting with choreographed moves. And almost all of my street fights were before I trained in MMA. Then when I went to an MMA gym to start training Muay Thai, I got my butt whooped by most of the Intermediate students there....so this is with years of TMA training, SD training and street fight experience...I was no match for most of the Intermediate Muay Thai students.

Now recently, I've trained quite extensively in Krav Maga....so yes, I can tell you that the average, low level, MMA fighter with 1-3 MMA fights, will destroy most Krav Maga practitioners with the same number of years training....in the gym or in the street...because once again, punching someone in the face really hard, works just the same anywhere.

And to clarify, I'm not a grappler, I meant a fighting guard, not bjj. And avoidable measuring contests between young men aren't generally considered self defense situations, they are consensual violence and so much the same as ring fighting.

Not necessarily true. I've been in many road rage incidents, where one side may not consent to a fight, but still don't want to look like the wimp by running away scared. There are many variables in a Self Defense situation. And legally, SD can vary from State to State in the USA. Like some jurisdictions requires you to retreat and call the cops (unless you were physically trapped or something). While States with The Castle Doctrine's, "Stand Your Ground" provision.....does not require you to retreat and you may even use deadly force to not just protect human life, but also property.

 

[DaveB]

But see, here's where we don't agree and it's significant. You somehow think that a Sports Fighter wouldn't have the training to beat the rap out of some average dummy in the street, way better than your average Self Defense Practitioner who've only trained with light to medium power striking....

That's twice you've replied now to a fictitious conversation. Are the voices you ar hearing a comfort or a torture?

You realise that you have fabricated every single point that you claim I believe. Not one thing you wrote is anywhere in my posts.

There's little point to a discussion if one side creates both arguments.

 

[FriedRice]

That's twice you've replied now to a fictitious conversation. Are the voices you ar hearing a comfort or a torture?

You realise that you have fabricated every single point that you claim I believe. Not one thing you wrote is anywhere in my posts.

There's little point to a discussion if one side creates both arguments.

I just quoted everything you said so who's the one with these problems?

 

[DaveB]

Okay, show me the sentence in my post that you have quoted where I say:

"a Sports Fighter wouldn't have the training to beat the rap out of some average dummy in the street, way better than your average Self Defense Practitioner who've only trained with light to medium power striking"

 

[Buka]

I haven't been in any road rage incidents. Am I driving on the wrong roads?

 

[RTKDCMB]

I haven't been in any road rage incidents.

There was one time when I was road raged a bit whist on the way to black and brown belt training with 3 other black belts. That might have been interesting.

 

[Buka]

There was one time when I was road raged a bit whist on the way to black and brown belt training with 3 other black belts. That might have been interesting.

I have two really funny/interesting stories of road rage. Fist hand stories in which I did not partake but was there. I'll post them later, I think you'll get a kick out of them.

 

[FriedRice]

Okay, show me the sentence in my post that you have quoted where I say:

"a Sports Fighter wouldn't have the training to beat the rap out of some average dummy in the street, way better than your average Self Defense Practitioner who've only trained with light to medium power striking"

Nice try in trying to take a part of a response, arguing your post, out of context.

 

[DaveB]

Fine, show me the posts I made or the points in those posts that create this context that you are talking about.

 

[DaveB]

Btw, I know that you can't do what I asked because it's not there. So really this is a challenge to see if you can admit you were wrong and that you made a bunch of baseless assumptions about me, my training and my position.

 

[FriedRice]

Btw, I know that you can't do what I asked because it's not there. So really this is a challenge to see if you can admit you were wrong and that you made a bunch of baseless assumptions about me, my training and my position.

No, it's there.

 

[Transk53]

Okay, show me the sentence in my post that you have quoted where I say:

"a Sports Fighter wouldn't have the training to beat the rap out of some average dummy in the street, way better than your average Self Defense Practitioner who've only trained with light to medium power striking"

That is bit off centre there surely. Considering SD is under a wide umbrella. Sorry and I mean no offence, SD is an electric mix. Some fancy, some Batman and some extremely effective. I would say the average is higher than you believe FriedRice.

 

[Buka]

Road rage story. A corker.

I was on the highway on my way to work. In my rear view mirror I spotted one of those sporty Mercedes weaving in and out of lanes cutting people off. Horns blared. An old guy in front of me was taking an exit when the Mercedes nearly hit him. Old guy blasted the horn and gave the finger out the window. (it's like a greeting in Boston) The kid in the Mercedes got pissed - but he had overshot the exit. No problem for this asshat, he goes over the curb, across the grass apron and tears after the guy.

I said to myself, "Crap, this could be bad." So I followed. I was hours early anyway, going in for a workout before my shift. I was off duty, but even if I wasn't I didn't have jurisdiction over traffic violations. But the kid seemed nuts and the old guy looked late seventies. Having the Lone Ranger syndrome isn't a good thing, but we are who we are, and my instinct told me to follow.

A few minutes down the road we come to a six way intersection, a traffic nightmare at times, but the stoplights usually work.
The old guy is in the far right lane at a red light with one car in front of him. The kid is three lanes to the left, also stopped in traffic at the light. I'm in the middle, one car back. The kid jumps out of his car, door wide open, sprints towards the old guy's car. He's dressed all fancy with a nice leather jacket that probably costs more than my five hundred dollar used jeep rattletrap.

He runs up to the car, screaming. The old guy screams back, gives the finger again. The kid starts pounding on the window.

Oh, crap, I think again, and whip out my cell to call 911. Out of the corner of my eye I see something and look. A guy is duck walking, staying low to the ground. Our eyes meet, he has a little grin on his face. He reaches the Mercedes, takes out the keys, hits the door lock, shuts the door and duck walks back. The kid is now booting the side of the guy's car and the old guy is leaning on the horn.

The light turns green, traffic starts to move, the old guy boots the gas and peels away. The kid sprints back to his Mercedes.
Which is now locked. Now he looks like a third base coach on cocaine. He's patting his jacket, feeling his pockets, looking in the car, spinning around looking on the ground. He's going nuts. A lot of motorists saw what had transpired. They're all beeping and giving him the finger out their windows, me included. I'm laughing my *** off. It was the funniest thing I had ever seen. Or so I thought.

Five minutes later I'm back on the highway again. I drive like an old lady, I'm in the right hand lane. A car starts to pass on the left, one of a million that pass me every day. But I notice it matches my speed when it gets abreast of me. I look over. At first I though the driver was pointing at me. But he's not, it's the duck walking guy with the grin. He has his arm extended, showing me the kid's keys. I start laughing my butt off again. He speeds up, puts on his blinker and gets in front of me - right where the highway passes over a low lying river. He lowers the window, and with a perfect hand grenade toss, the keys sail in a beautiful arc and splash! Right in the river.

It was the nicest ride to work I ever had.

 

[Transk53]

All in all an interesting journey Nice!

 

[Balrog]

What Martial Arts Have to Do With Atheism

I am an advocate of evidence based training. And that the majority of training should be based in scientific method. But accept there is faith based training needed to get you over the line.

There is no evidence that anything faith based ever accomplished anything, whereas anything quantifiable and measurable does. So I have to ask - why waste time and effort on anything faith based?

 

[drop bear]

There is no evidence that anything faith based ever accomplished anything, whereas anything quantifiable and measurable does. So I have to ask - why waste time and effort on anything faith based?

Because you may face a situation you have not prepared for and have to improvise.

 

[Balrog]

Because you may face a situation you have not prepared for and have to improvise.

I would improvise by using techniques that I know will work, not by praying. Or have I totally misinterpreted what you mean by faith-based?

 

[DaveB]

No, it's there.

And yet, though you know how to quote, it is missing from your post?

I'm normally sympathetic to those who can't manage life's challenges, but this is just pathetic. We all get the wrong end of the stick sometimes but at least have the grace to admit it.

 

[drop bear]

I would improvise by using techniques that I know will work, not by praying. Or have I totally misinterpreted what you mean by faith-based?

Possibly.

Faith based as in been told it works but have never made it work or seen it work.

 

[Spinoza]

I haven't been in any road rage incidents. Am I driving on the wrong roads?

Nah, it's probably just that most road rage incidents involve ego defense instead of self defense.