Ramblings of a Madman

[Xue Sheng]

This first part is from here

Too much yackin'?

I wrote this on October 20, 2006

First I am old and I have been in this a long time so I tend to have a dinosaurs view I guess, but there use to be a lot more comradery between martial artists back in the Stone Age. I have often wondered what happened to that.

I feel that the Internet has been both a good thing and a bad thing.

The bad part: Not to any exposed secrecy or cross art contamination mind you but it has allowed people to use the anonymity of the web to hide and attack from the sidelines. And also due to what at least appears to me as a lack of MA brotherhood, caused the online battles of trying to prove whose art is tougher, better or more scientific to get out of hand.

Back when we were roaming with dinosaurs it generally ended up in a fairly friendly sparring match, and you learned from that where your weaknesses were. Sometimes you learned to keep your mouth shut around senior students…. Not that I would know this from experience mind you. :whip:

Let me say here that I am not advocating meeting people to beat them up or challenging someone to a sparring match to make your point, I am just saying that was my experience and there was very little anger involved.

The good part: It has fostered some of that old comradely between martial artist that otherwise would not have the opportunity to meet. And it has given people exposure to arts they could not get a chance to know about otherwise and it has also been of assistance to people that needed MA questions answered that otherwise may go unanswered.

Just my 2 cents

Most of that still stands, I am however older

But this part

The good part: It has fostered some of that old comradely between martial artist that otherwise would not have the opportunity to meet.

Is getting less and less these days because there is way too much of this now

The bad part: Not to any exposed secrecy or cross art contamination mind you but it has allowed people to use the anonymity of the web to hide and attack from the sidelines. And also due to what at least appears to me as a lack of MA brotherhood, caused the online battles of trying to prove whose art is tougher, better or more scientific to get out of hand.

Now to this

MartialTalk.com Forum Rules and Procedures

Question; Do these rules still apply?

Because this some of them seems to have been forgotten;

I shall start with; 1.10.2 No Art bashing.

1.10.2 No Art bashing.

No one art is "the best", no one "style" is the best. All have their strengths and weaknesses. Do your research and find what best fits your ability and need.

This seems to be pretty rampant here these days, and it seems to be the same few posters perpetrating it, over and over again.


Just my 2 cents

 

[mograph]

Yes, anonymity seems to breed rudeness because the stakes are low: no face-to-face contact.
Link: Why Is Everyone on the Internet So Angry?

I wonder if treating a forum like a dojo/studio/kwoon/dojang would make sense?

That is, if we practice art "A," and enter a forum named for art "B," we should behave with respect for art B as if we were actually visiting a studio where art B is practiced?
... and the same would go for intra-art discussions: have respect for our fellow practitioners of the art because infighting looks bad to visitors to the studio.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Its a nice thought, but I am beginning to believe that there are more than a few posting these days on MT that think if they yell....it makes them look smarter...... You are asking to much when you ask some to be respectful or try and understand anything outside of their narrow view of things. Because, once they get outside that small area, they are no longer the big fish in a little pond. They are now a smaller fish in a much bigger pond.... which give them reason to bully, argue and attack

 

[Flying Crane]

There are people here who simply have a very narrow range of experience. When they encounter something outside of their experience they lack the frame of reference and the tools to understand it.

Instead of trying to understand it for what it is, they try to cram it into the perspective of their limited experience. They fail. Square peg, round hole and whatnot.

Instead of simply recognizing that this is something that they have not experienced and do not understand (failing also to realize that there is no shame in such an admission) they judge it deficient and begin the criticisms. It seems that young males who want to be an alpha can't seem to help themselves.

There is a lot of ignorance here.

 

[lklawson]

Is getting less and less these days because there is way too much of this now



Now to this

MartialTalk.com Forum Rules and Procedures

Question; Do these rules still apply?

Because this some of them seems to have been forgotten;

I shall start with; 1.10.2 No Art bashing.



This seems to be pretty rampant here these days, and it seems to be the same few posters perpetrating it, over and over again.


Just my 2 cents

Why do you care? There has always, ALWAYS, historically speaking, been trashtalking and not-so-nice competition between martial arts. ...always.

In the old days, a person who trash talked could get Challenged. Any number of duel type situations could ensue. If the trash talker agreed to the challenge, then that happened. Everyone got points for not being cowards. It didn't even have to be a duel to the death, or even injury. There were lots of options. If one person "won" then the whole thing went to the court of public opinion to decide if it was a fluke, a poorly trained representative, or one art really was better. If the person who was challenged doesn't take up the challenge, then he was pilloried as a coward and no one paid any attention to anything else he said.

How is it different now?

If someone is trash talking you and your art then challenge him. If he refuses, then get everyone to laugh at him as a coward. If he comes out, then one of you looses and it's up to you after that to decide how to handle it. I've seen this actually happen.

It's one reason why I'm not anonymous. If anyone has any questions about what I teach, they can come out and observe.

So why do you care if someone is being rude? If they're doing so from anonymity and won't come out of the shadows then both you and I know that they're cowards. <shrug>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Xue Sheng]

Why do you care? There has always, ALWAYS, historically speaking, been trashtalking and not-so-nice competition between martial arts. ...always.

In the old days, a person who trash talked could get Challenged. Any number of duel type situations could ensue. If the trash talker agreed to the challenge, then that happened. Everyone got points for not being cowards. It didn't even have to be a duel to the death, or even injury. There were lots of options. If one person "won" then the whole thing went to the court of public opinion to decide if it was a fluke, a poorly trained representative, or one art really was better. If the person who was challenged doesn't take up the challenge, then he was pilloried as a coward and no one paid any attention to anything else he said.

How is it different now?

If someone is trash talking you and your art then challenge him. If he refuses, then get everyone to laugh at him as a coward. If he comes out, then one of you looses and it's up to you after that to decide how to handle it. I've seen this actually happen.

It's one reason why I'm not anonymous. If anyone has any questions about what I teach, they can come out and observe.

So why do you care if someone is being rude? If they're doing so from anonymity and won't come out of the shadows then both you and I know that they're cowards. <shrug>

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

your experience in the old days and my experience in the old days of training is apparently somewhat different.... I don't remember any duels to the Death in the early 70s

I am not losing any sleep over it, that I assure you, but turning a blind eye to a problem, generally only makes it worse. Pointing it out may do nothing, but it has been mentioned. But you are correct they are cowards

 

[mograph]

I'm finding the "ignore" button rather useful.

As are other commenters, I'm sure.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes I now have two permanent residents on my ignore list. It took 10 year, but there are now 2..... I have put some on over the years as a kind of time out. But only one stayed on it permanently...until yesterday...now there are 2..... could be 3 by the end of the week

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes I now have two permanent residents on my ignore list. It took 10 year, but there are now 2..... I have put some on over the years as a kind of time out. But only one stayed on it permanently...until yesterday...now there are 2..... could be 3 by the end of the week

I haven't used the ignore feature yet. I probably should. The thing is, I still get a morbid pleasure sometimes in seeing what utter nonsense certain people are posting next. It can be comedy.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was doing the same, but I kept hearing the same thing in my head every time I thought about posting or when I actually posted

"Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"


But it is just that it appears that old days of MA and most of the old school people are gone, even from the web....

 

[lklawson]

your experience in the old days and my experience in the old days of training is apparently somewhat different.... I don't remember any duels to the Death in the early 70s

You know, the OLD DAYS... 1860 and earlier?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Xue Sheng]

You know, the OLD DAYS... 1860 and earlier?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

DANG!!!!! You're older than I thought

 

[lklawson]

I was doing the same, but I kept hearing the same thing in my head every time I thought about posting or when I actually posted

"Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"


But it is just that it appears that old days of MA and most of the old school people are gone, even from the web....

They never were.

Count Dante - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

DANG!!!!! You're older than I thought

Wellllllllll, I didn't want to say anything there might be a reason the guy in this old article has the same name and interests...

Throwback Thursday: An Old-Time Sniper

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Xue Sheng]

They never were.

Count Dante - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I remember that guy's articles

 

[Steve]

Rather than start a thread lamenting how much better things were (they weren't) and how much worse things are now (they aren't), post something constructive (which this thread ain't) and don't take the bait.

Seriously guys, I get frustrated sometimes, too. But I fully acknowledge when I've been a butthead. I believe you have Drop Bear in mind, but what about Tez? You have Hanzou in mind, but what about ballen? I jump into the mud pit from time to time, sure. But, what about Chris Parker? What about you, Flying Crane, or you, Xue? You guys fling the mud around pretty well, too.

Without fuel, there is no fire. It takes two to tango. Pick your cliché.

I commend guys like Buka and Tony Dismukes, who are unfailingly polite and respectful. They are excellent mentors and I would point to them as examples of how we can disagree respectfully.

I like you, Xue. I really do. I like reading your posts and enjoy hearing you lament the weather and how you can't eat pizza. But come on, my friend. If you don't like it, help change it. And in my opinion, looking at how guys like Buka and Tony D go about their business is a great start.

 

[Flying Crane]

There have always been a few jerks here. Eventually they go away and are replaced by a new crop. It's the way it works.

Buka and Tony are always polite and reasonable and intelligent in their discussions I agree. I used to be that way too. Give them some more time and that will probably change as they too just get fed up.

Here's the thing. There are a few here who like to push their perspective everywhere, including in threads they didn't start. It is disruptive to the discussion. I and Xue and Chris and Tez tend to respond to those disruptions. When I'm flinging dirt it's usually because for the umpteenth time one or two folks have decided to chime in and essentially try and tell everyone that what they do is junk. I know that I have made genuine attempts at discussion and education for these folks, and they have chosen to remain uneducated. Eventually the only response for that, after repeated attempts at discussion, is "#### off".

Some people are jerks, plain and simple. We've called them out.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Steve

Rather than start a thread lamenting how much better things were (they weren't) and how much worse things are now (they aren't), post something constructive (which this thread ain't) and don't take the bait.

Been there done that and I feel the threads purpose is not to turn a blind eye to what is going on. That is never a good thing, and there are many examples in history where people looked the other way and things went bad

Seriously guys, I get frustrated sometimes, too. But I fully acknowledge when I've been a butthead. I believe you have Drop Bear in mind, but what about Tez? You have Hanzou in mind, but what about ballen? I jump into the mud pit from time to time, sure. But, what about Chris Parker? What about you, Flying Crane, or you, Xue? You guys fling the mud around pretty well, too.

but steve, you have gone after everyone you listed, except drop bear and Hanzou, It seems to be ok with you if they insult, bash and cause problems. But I make a post about what I feel is wrong and then you show up to lecture.

Without fuel, there is no fire. It takes two to tango. Pick your cliché.

Actually its an excuse.So you see some body getting harassed you do what..look the other way because it takes two to tango and your involvement would just make it worse. Is that it. Some one is getting bullied and that is ok with you then...interestiong

I commend guys like Buka and Tony Dismukes, who are unfailingly polite and respectful. They are excellent mentors and I would point to them as examples of how we can disagree respectfully.

Speaking of Cliches; here is one you should think about, physician heal thyself...You should look to your own examples. they also treat everybody equally, you do not

I like you, Xue. I really do. I like reading your posts and enjoy hearing you lament the weather and how you can't eat pizza. But come on, my friend. If you don't like it, help change it. And in my opinion, looking at how guys like Buka and Tony D go about their business is a great start.

It appears you have not been paying attention, I have tried, multiple times to change it, but it never does...started back when Bob was still in charge, even talked with Bob about it.... as for you Steve.... your lack of bias in these topics, and jumping to the defense of the biggest perpetrators has been a disappointment. You have not intervened or told your pals they were out of line or told them to look to Buka or Tony D (who are good guys). But I say something against one of your new found pals and you come after me....now please stop lecturing me... and you need to check yourself here my friend

Thanks for stopping by

 

[Xue Sheng]

Steve

One final thing.... where you here when Don Roley use to post here?

I had a few PM conversations with him about something very similar to this years ago. Only then I was trying to think of ways to get him to stay, since he was (and is) incredibly knowledgeable. At the time I did not fully agree, but you know, I now think Don was right. I have seen a lot of real knowledgable people leave, come and go from MT over the years and I am certain they have left for all sorts of reasons. But I am equally sure some left for the same reason Don did and back then I was of the belief that you should just ignore the problems.... it did not make it better, and a lot of good people left.

You keep looking the other way.....later

 

[drop bear]

There have always been a few jerks here. Eventually they go away and are replaced by a new crop. It's the way it works.

Buka and Tony are always polite and reasonable and intelligent in their discussions I agree. I used to be that way too. Give them some more time and that will probably change as they too just get fed up.

Here's the thing. There are a few here who like to push their perspective everywhere, including in threads they didn't start. It is disruptive to the discussion. I and Xue and Chris and Tez tend to respond to those disruptions. When I'm flinging dirt it's usually because for the umpteenth time one or two folks have decided to chime in and essentially try and tell everyone that what they do is junk. I know that I have made genuine attempts at discussion and education for these folks, and they have chosen to remain uneducated. Eventually the only response for that, after repeated attempts at discussion, is "#### off".

Some people are jerks, plain and simple. We've called them out.

Being constantly offended Is also behaving like a jerk because you are showing intolerance. There is no moral high ground in that even though it may feel like it is. Same with calling people a troll. It is still just name calling.

Bear in mind this thread is about how much of a bunch of scumbags some posters are. (Which includes me aparently) now I am a jerk. But I am not such a jerk that I would have done that.

Here we go some helpfull tips.

How To Stop Being Offended

Oh and by educating people you have to come from a position that you are better than them which is an arrogant stance.