"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

gpseymour

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No they use the game changing sole of the foot. Because in the street you are wearing shoes.


Where in MMA they use the bottom part of the foot because it is sport and they have bare feet.

See? The street is entirely different. You get it.
 

drop bear

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See? The street is entirely different. You get it.

Absolutely. I got beaten up once in a street fight because the other guy hit me while I was getting my hand wraps done and choosing my walk out music.

There is just no parallel between them.

This was the song by the way.

 

Oni_Kadaki

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Would be better off learning boxing and training regularly on Defensive Tactics that have restraint, escorting, handcuffing, and weapon retention in mind.

Whoa, guy, are you suggesting that regular practice trumps the differences between disciplines?

The US Air Force Security Forces (Air Force military police) teaches a combatives curriculum that is virtually all BJJ. I take issue with it. That's not to say I take issue with BJJ... it has saved my life, so I have a special place for it in my heart. But, when you consider that many defenders (USAF security forces) will take two weeks of combatives in the academy, do a refresher once or twice yearly, and that's IT, I believe BJJ is way too complicated to be the basis of the system. Now, we can argue that they should train more REGARDLESS of the system (I've said it many times), but, the fact is that someone can become decently proficient in throwing punches, blocks, and low kicks with two weeks of defensive training. That's not to say they will be able to throw a punch with the brutal efficiency of a 3rd dan in Shotokan, but they can probably stand their own against a drunk or an irate cyber nerd, which is generally what an USAF cop needs to be able to do. BJJ is more nuanced, and I'd argue you need considerably more time to develop even a semblance of proficiency. Moreover, BJJ trains in conditions that are vastly different from the real world. True, all martial arts do, but the fact that I'm wearing a plate carrier with level II or III plates, a baton, a Beretta 92, possibly an M4 assault rifle, and ammo for the aforementioned weapons, the dynamics of fighting on the ground become very different. I can throw a punch with all that gear on... I can't say the same for a triangle, nor can I say I'd definitely want to, given where a triangle may place my holster relative to the suspect. Finally, given the realities of real-world fighting, as a military LEO, I don't want my primary defensive system to be so ground heavy... you don't have to worry about your suspect's buddy kicking you in the head when you're in a controlled environment.

I'd be interested to see what [Kemposhot] thinks about this, as he is an actual cop!
 

gpseymour

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Absolutely. I got beaten up once in a street fight because the other guy hit me while I was getting my hand wraps done and choosing my walk out music.

There is just no parallel between them.

This was the song by the way.

That's okay. I keep getting beaten up while I'm trying to get my shoes off and tie my belt properly. Imagine how badly those Kendo folks must fare.
 

gpseymour

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Whoa, guy, are you suggesting that regular practice trumps the differences between disciplines?

The US Air Force Security Forces (Air Force military police) teaches a combatives curriculum that is virtually all BJJ. I take issue with it. That's not to say I take issue with BJJ... it has saved my life, so I have a special place for it in my heart. But, when you consider that many defenders (USAF security forces) will take two weeks of combatives in the academy, do a refresher once or twice yearly, and that's IT, I believe BJJ is way too complicated to be the basis of the system. Now, we can argue that they should train more REGARDLESS of the system (I've said it many times), but, the fact is that someone can become decently proficient in throwing punches, blocks, and low kicks with two weeks of defensive training. That's not to say they will be able to throw a punch with the brutal efficiency of a 3rd dan in Shotokan, but they can probably stand their own against a drunk or an irate cyber nerd, which is generally what an USAF cop needs to be able to do. BJJ is more nuanced, and I'd argue you need considerably more time to develop even a semblance of proficiency. Moreover, BJJ trains in conditions that are vastly different from the real world. True, all martial arts do, but the fact that I'm wearing a plate carrier with level II or III plates, a baton, a Beretta 92, possibly an M4 assault rifle, and ammo for the aforementioned weapons, the dynamics of fighting on the ground become very different. I can throw a punch with all that gear on... I can't say the same for a triangle, nor can I say I'd definitely want to, given where a triangle may place my holster relative to the suspect. Finally, given the realities of real-world fighting, as a military LEO, I don't want my primary defensive system to be so ground heavy... you don't have to worry about your suspect's buddy kicking you in the head when you're in a controlled environment.

I'd be interested to see what [Kemposhot] thinks about this, as he is an actual cop!
There are definitely parts of BJJ (as with any grappling system) that get too technical for short courses like DT. There are also parts of BJJ that are simple and more mechanical (think a basic sweep, technical stand up, even a simple guard pass) that aren't so hard to get competent at to that same level (against the drunk or otherwise not-so-competent fighter). Pair that with some basic striking, a couple of easy takedowns, and some upright locks that lead to easy cuffing, and you've got something 2 weeks can cover without getting technical.
 

gpseymour

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Absolutely. I got beaten up once in a street fight because the other guy hit me while I was getting my hand wraps done and choosing my walk out music.

There is just no parallel between them.

This was the song by the way.

Oh, and I forgot the time I got seriously beaten or killed while searching for a clean spot to fight in. There's gravel and glass everywhere out there in the street, man.
 
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Interesting article and video about a firefighter who was shot and killed. The video in the article makes the argument that because of Bjj's ground fighting expertise they can control suspects better and help avoid cops losing control and getting accidently shot or stabbed. I would be very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on this.

Fatal Shooting of Firefighter: Why Every Cop Should Train BJJ
No. Even Renner Gracie trains members of law enforcement to not go to ground because suspects can get ahold of items on their utility belt gun, spray etc.
 
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Hanzou

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No. Even Renner Gracie trains members of law enforcement to not go to ground because suspects can get ahold of items on their utility belt gun, spray etc.

There's a difference between purposely taking someone to the ground, and being knocked down/forced to the ground. BJJ teaches you how to deal with both situations.
 

drop bear

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Oh, and I forgot the time I got seriously beaten or killed while searching for a clean spot to fight in. There's gravel and glass everywhere out there in the street, man.

The floor is lava.
 

Buka

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Anyone working as a police officer might have different thoughts on this subject than anyone not working as a police officer.

Anyone who trains BJJ might have different thoughts on this than anyone who doesn't train BJJ.

Anyone who works as a police officer and trains BJJ might have different opinions as well. I think for the most part each and all would be valid.

I guess it could depend on how and when any or all of these experiences took place, how they first presented themselves to you, and what the hell you did with them.

As for me, I'm good thanks. I'll keep doing what I've been doing and teaching what I've been teaching. Haven't lost any guys yet. I've had good law Enforcement trainers, on high levels. The BJJ instructors weren't too shabby either.
 
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There's a difference between purposely taking someone to the ground, and being knocked down/forced to the ground. BJJ teaches you how to deal with both situations.

True, it definately won't hurt to have BJJ tools, ever, just saying it wouldn't be a priority style for law enforcement.
 
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Because of all those resisted arrests that end standing?

Actually they have their own training/techniques for handcuffing suspects, they're not actually using kimuras or omoplatas to make them tap out or anything.

Either way most of the cops Ive worked with love BJJ.
 
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Hanzou

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True, it definately won't hurt to have BJJ tools, ever, just saying it wouldn't be a priority style for law enforcement.

It should be. I cant think of many situations more precarious than being knocked down, and having a suspect being on top of you reaching for your weapon (see about 9:30 in Drop Bears video). I also really cant think of another MA that could help you deal with that situation better than BJJ (or BJJ derived).
 
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Absolutely that would be BJJ. Most law enforcement self defense programs ive seen have the trap and roll escape. Bjj would also be good for positional control and getting them to give you their back as well.
 

drop bear

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It should be. I cant think of many situations more precarious than being knocked down, and having a suspect being on top of you reaching for your weapon (see about 9:30 in Drop Bears video). I also really cant think of another MA that could help you deal with that situation better than BJJ (or BJJ derived).

I will let you in on a little secret. You basically cannot fight hand cuffs on someone while they are still standing.

(Actually I might have a way to do it. But I would want to be so slick and they would have to be extra crap to catch them in it. It is also the one I use for girls because there is less risk of me groping them.)
 

CB Jones

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It should be. I cant think of many situations more precarious than being knocked down, and having a suspect being on top of you reaching for your weapon (see about 9:30 in Drop Bears video). I also really cant think of another MA that could help you deal with that situation better than BJJ (or BJJ derived).

Most Defensive tactics systems coming out now use BJJ techniques. They take the techniques that will work in LEO instead of the whole art. They also take techniques that dont quite fit our needs and modify them to fit them. Many of the tactics also have to be modified for weapon retention.

All the escapes from the bottom are BJJ with some modification for weapon retention.

Our handcuffing position is a modified version of knee to belly....we use knee to back.
 
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