Etiquette rules from new CDK Kwan Jang

[IcemanSK]

I saw this on the website of GM KIM, Yong Ho, the new Chung Do Kwan Jang.

http://www.taekwondo-training.com/taekwondo-training/dojang-etiquette

My experience has been that Westerners tend to be uncomfortable with giving this level of deference to an instructor. What are your thoughts on these? What has your experience been?

 

[chrispillertkd]

We generally follow about 95% of those, I'd say.

Did you have anything in specific in mind when you said you thought westerners would be uncomfortable with showing that amount of defference?

Pax,

Chris

 

[IcemanSK]

We generally follow about 95% of those, I'd say.

Did you have anything in specific in mind when you said you thought westerners would be uncomfortable with showing that amount of defference?

Pax,

Chris

I think the one that mentions "an instructor has no hands or pockets" (as the most glaring example) would bother most Westerners. I even know some Westerner instructors who have been shown that kind of deference & are uncomfortable with it.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I think the one that mentions "an instructor has no hands or pockets" (as the most glaring example) would bother most Westerners. I even know some Westerner instructors who have been shown that kind of deference & are uncomfortable with it.

I will say that usually when the students go out for dinner after a seminar or other function my instructors pay their own way if they were the ones hosting the event. If they were teaching or running the test their check is taken care of. If I go out to dinner with them I always try to pay, usually by serreptitously intercepting the waiter or waitress to get the check. Otherwise it's a fight to see who picks it up when it gets to the table.

I have no problem buying dinner for my instructors, at all. FWIW, I can't really think of a case where'd they'd need to get "incidentals" when I was with them so that isn't really an issue for me.

The main things that we don't do is the gift giving things if there was a misunderstanding (although I've certainly apologized before when there was), and using an envelope to pay since monthly dues are handled by the community center in which classes are held. Private lessons are paid directly, of course, but no envelopes are used.

The statement about only having one instructor is interesting, though I can't say I completely agree with it, especially if one studies more than one martial art. If it is taken to mean only one instructor of a particular art, then I can certainly see that.

Asking permission to train at another school is more of a polite informing for us that we'll be going to a seminar, another school, etc.

Some great comments about leading by example and not demanding respect from anyone, I thought.

Pax,

Chris

 

[miguksaram]

I think the one that mentions "an instructor has no hands or pockets" (as the most glaring example) would bother most Westerners. I even know some Westerner instructors who have been shown that kind of deference & are uncomfortable with it.

There are a couple of scenarios to consider here. Please note I am speaking more Korean culture view point here that I have experienced. First and fore most if a group of students and the instructor go out, it is up to the students to take care of the instructor. If an instructor asks a student to go out, then the instructor will pay, however, the student should still make the attempt to pay (usually the instructor will insist on paying himself). If a student asks the instructor out, then the student is responsible for paying. The instructor will usually offer to pay, but the junior, with respect, should refuse any money from the instructor. In general when a senior and junior go out, it is usually the senior person who pays for the dinner.

As for the aspect of carrying things, it is usually the students to who do all the carrying, not the instructors. This can also be seen in Japanese karate culture as well.

Overall I like those rules that they have listed on there.

 

[Miles]

Thanks for sharing this info.

Several years ago there was an article in TKD Times on the Korea Taekwondo Association's Etiquette guide. I thought it was very informative as it went into situations like group meals, getting into a car, opening doors, etc.

 

[puunui]

http://www.taekwondo-training.com/taekwondo-training/dojang-etiquette

My experience has been that Westerners tend to be uncomfortable with giving this level of deference to an instructor. What are your thoughts on these? What has your experience been?

I think that uncomfortableness in giving this level of deference to instructors and seniors is a large issue facing all martial arts today.

 

[IcemanSK]

I have to agree with you, Glenn. There is often a feeling of "I've been around for "x" number of years" or "I've acheived "y" surely my instructor ( or others) should see me as more of an equal." Or, "I've bowed to everyone for a long time. Now it's time for the juniors to bow to me." For some, that's when egos get in the way. Sadly.

 

[puunui]

There is often a feeling of "I've been around for "x" number of years" or "I've acheived "y" surely my instructor ( or others) should see me as more of an equal." Or, "I've bowed to everyone for a long time. Now it's time for the juniors to bow to me." For some, that's when egos get in the way. Sadly.

I don't know if you agree with me. But I can tell you from a USTU perspective, I feel like my generation was a generation that got skipped over. We were and are loyal to our seniors and teachers, basically without question. Then when the USTU/USAT transition took place, my generation got skipped over in favor of juniors who really had no experience in running an NGB. I think that was intentional from the old USOC's perspective, because having inexperienced junior people in there made it easier to maintain control via USOC civil servants like Bob G. and David A.

But now that USAT is on the verge of collapse, it will be real interesting to see what happens next. Which group gains control and what happens when control is gained?

I can also say that our relationships with our teachers and seniors have evolved as well. We aren't treated the same way today like when we were younger. It's really a shame that my generation (of which I am probably one of the youngest) didn't have a chance to do our thing at USTU. At the very least, we would have made it a much smoother transition, as opposed to the abrupt downward spiral that USAT has been experiencing, for seven years now. Imagine if someone like John Holloway were allowed to be President. Do you think that we would be going through all of these kinds of things now?

But I think my generation is almost at the point where we don't care, about any of it. It is very difficult to continue to try to improve things for the younger generation, when that younger generation cannot understand or appreciate what we are trying to do. So in that sense, we have the same perspective as the generation who immediately preceded us. Maybe we will just do what our seniors did and just go home and take care of those immediately in front of us, like what most of the younger "respect is earned" "what about me" generation does.

It's really kind of sad for me to watch it all crumble before my very eyes, and not want to do something to stop that from happening, because when you do try to do something, some junior takes it the wrong way and gets resentful or angry or thinks that you are acting out of ego, instead of a genuine desire to make things better.

One thing all of this has done for me is that it has given me a much greater understand and appreciation for the term "generation gap".