Doshinkan

[Kickboxer101]

Disagree wholeheartedly. ...in this day and age, it is nolonger the case.

The Internet can only tell you so much

Okay so if one guy who trains it says doshinkan is garbage and you'd be wasting your time doing it's a bs style that would never work for self defence

And another guy who trains it says doshinkan is the best martial art ever and I can beat up 10 people with it's the best ever.

What do you do then everyone has their own opinion the only way to get your opinion is to go to the school and see if you like it.

If I came on here asking before I started training what kicboxing was like some would say it's great some would say it's rubbish then it'd still be down to me to make that choice of whether I go and train or not and sure the Internet can give you information but it can't tell you if /you/ will like it whys that so hard to understand?

 

[frank raud]

So, there's a relatively obscure martial art taught close to me. Can I get stranger's opinions of it, because I won't check it out myself without knowing everything about it first, and is it ok if I'm condescending to everyone for suggesting I try it out?

 

[Tez3]

I don't think he's looking for info on whether people think it's the best martial art since sliced bread or not but more along the lines of who it's suitable for. For example my style Wado Ryu is great for shorter lighter people perhaps even less supple people because it has shorter stances, no deep front stance as you see in some karate styles. It has kicks but it doesn't focus on high kicks like TKD, we have takedowns and some ground work because the founder put it in. My instructor's karate style is Shotokan, much deeper stances, less movement than Wado, probably suits bigger people. I've tried JKD but find the style difficult to do after doing karate plus the stances made my knees hurt. This is all personal information that is hard to find on the internet, all the styles I've mentioned are very good but a personal recommendation is always good.
As for kick boxing there are various styles and rules, just saying you kick box doesn't actually tell me much about what you train, is it K1, European MT rules, Thai MT rules, is it just karate without the kata ( yes many places teach that, just the kick and punches) is it full contact points? Is it actually boxercise?

 

[Deleted member 34973]

What difference does it make? If they say they do the XXXXXX katas, unless you already know them, it won't really mean much.
Best bet is simply to go to the school and watch a couple classes.

So, there's a relatively obscure martial art taught close to me. Can I get stranger's opinions of it, because I won't check it out myself without knowing everything about it first, and is it ok if I'm condescending to everyone for suggesting I try it out?

Thats what started this whole thing... Dirty Dogs condescending attitude concerning my question.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

If folks do not believe in researching a product before you purchase it...thats fine. Its just not something I like to do. I was simply asking if anyone had any personal experience. "No or Yes" that is an answer to my question. I seen the website. I could not find anything else on the system and asked if anyone knew about the system.

Regardless of what anyone here says...I dont believe wanting more info was a bad thing. If you dont know, suck up your pride and say so. One doesnt need to be snarky in their response due to their lack of knowledge concerning the question.

 

[Tez3]

Btw I Googled 'Doshinkan' and all that came up was this Doshinkan Coffee Mugs | Doshinkan Travel Mugs - CafePress so I can imagine the OP might want some info!

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Btw I Googled 'Doshinkan' and all that came up was this Doshinkan Coffee Mugs | Doshinkan Travel Mugs - CafePress so I can imagine the OP might want some info!

Exactly, but the funny thing is, I talked to the Instructor and have a class set up for Thursday set up.

Which was my next step after asking here on Martial Talk.

 

[Paul_D]

Thats what started this whole thing... Dirty Dogs condescending attitude concerning my question.

Having re read the whole thread I have to disagree. There is one person here with an attitude here, but it isn't Dirty Dog.

You have been given the most sensible piece of advice (it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, you won't know for sure until you go check it out) and you have responded with cocky and leary comments such as "ya think".

Further evidence of your attitude is you dislike of a question asked by water gal. How can you disagree with a question? It's not an option or a statement, it's a question, you can't disagree with a question. But you have chosen to spit your dummy out of the pram and hit dislike.

You state further that Martial Talk is not the place to come to ask about information on martial arts because people just tell you to go check it out for yourself. Considering the wealth of experience and knowledge present in the senior members on this site, if people keep asking those who know about arts, and those in the know keep telling them to go check it out, that suggests to me that the reason for this is not because Martial Talk isn't the place to ask for info, it's because that is the best piece of advice anyone can give you!

You have chosen to come here and ask for advice, you have been given that advice and then you kick off because you don't like the advice you have been given.

If you ask for advice you do not have to accept it, nor do you have to agree with it, you don't even have to like it, but if you ask for it and get it you have no reason to ***** about it. That's just full retard, and everyone knows you never go full retard.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Having re read the whole thread I have to disagree. There is one person here with an attitude here, but it isn't Dirty Dog.

You have been given the most sensible piece of advice (it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, you won't know for sure until you go check it out) and you have responded with cocky and leary comments such as "ya think".

Further evidence of your attitude is you dislike of a question asked by water gal. How can you disagree with a question? It's not an option or a statement, it's a question, you can't disagree with a question. But you have chosen to spit your dummy out of the pram and hit dislike.

You state further that Martial Talk is not the place to come to ask about information on martial arts because people just tell you to go check it out for yourself. Considering the wealth of experience and knowledge present in the senior members on this site, if people keep asking those who know about arts, and those in the know keep telling them to go check it out, that suggests to me that the reason for this is not because Martial Talk isn't the place to ask for info, it's because that is the best piece of advice anyone can give you!

You have chosen to come here and ask for advice, you have been given that advice and then you kick off because you don't like the advice you have been given.

If you ask for advice you do not have to accept it, nor do you have to agree with it, you don't even have to like it, but if you ask for it and get it you have no reason to ***** about it. That's just full retard, and everyone knows you never go full retard.

I didnt like the advice because I didnt ask for any and its a matter of perspective...Dirty Dog made no attempt to answer my question. He could have simply ignored the thread, if he had no experience with it.

But again...Never once did I asked for advice. The rest of this thread was an attempt by several people to "Advise me of the obvious". A snarky obvious answer is just childish.

And it just continues.

 

[jks9199]

Stating the obvious does become annoying and if Instructors can not or are not willing, to go into the logistics of the system they teach, then the are simply using car sales tactics or they do not have a clue concerning their system. Its a red flag. I disagree with the statement that I was rude.

If you cant answer the question...move along. You do not need to have an opinion about everything.

But making the statement "go try a class"...I will respond to with a previous response "ya think"

That is probably everyones first thought when considering a specific art.

I understand now that Martial Talk is not a place to find out info concerning the various systems.

Let it go man.

Look, it's real simple. I can (and do!) give a brief description to those interested. But details,lengthy explanations, extensive descriptions of training practices... Nope. Not something I "tell" because the truth is that telling is incomplete. You might think I'm a great guy as we chat in the gym or wherever -- but decide that I'm a raging asshat when I lead a class. You might want a class that's run differently, or a different mix of people. All those are things that you can't see without actually visiting.

And... without actually visiting, I may not want you as a student -- because it IS a two way street.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Exactly, but the funny thing is, I talked to the Instructor and have a class set up for Thursday set up.

Which was my next step after asking here on Martial Talk.

So after all your whining about our advice you did it anyway..nice one

 

[Tez3]

Isn't it strange how people read things? All I saw was someone asking if anyone knew anything about a style which was not known generally and there was little information on it, yet others saw something different and some just jumped on the bandwagon. No one said, 'sorry never heard of it, sounds interesting let us know if you go and have a look.'

So after all your whining about our advice you did it anyway..nice one

Considering how often you get things wrong to the point of actually libelling a very decent fighter you probably shouldn't be throwing stone at another poster you know.

 

[dancingalone]

No dog in this fight for me, but it looks like the Doshinkan founder has a lineage back to Toyama Kanken. Judging by their rendition of Naihanchi, they've diverged quite a bit however. Meh. Anyway, dare I suggest anyone interested in training this way, go in person and try it out for a while?

 

[drop bear]

Isn't it strange how people read things? All I saw was someone asking if anyone knew anything about a style which was not known generally and there was little information on it, yet others saw something different and some just jumped on the bandwagon. No one said, 'sorry never heard of it, sounds interesting let us know if you go and have a look.'

I suggested that.

 

[Tez3]

If there is no information on a style it's entirely reasonable to ask if anyone has heard of it or trained in, there's two other threads on a similar vein going on at the moment all with much more civil answers on it than this one.

 

[jacek108]

Hi Guthrie,
I was looking for something on Google and was curious about this link.
I am sure you already know about Doshinkan but for those who don't, here is some information...
This style is traditional, it means no fighting. Nihon kumite is practiced analyzing katas only. There are about 200 forms but about 70 are used frequently.
There is no physical training like in sport styles. I spent a few years practicing different sports when I was young. Shotokan and Kyokushin in Poland and Wado Ryu in England. These first two styles are very physically demanding, with technical training at the end. Not many katas in Kyokushin... If someone wants to get into great fighting shape, these two are perfect for it. I have great memories from both of them.
I switched to Doshinkan after I found out that my first childhood instructor changed to Doshinkan. Plus my body was aching from injuries...
This style is more suited for mature people who don't chase after belts and competitions. The only person who can give you a belt is a Grand Master, Hanshi, 10 Dan.
It means that even 8th Dan cannot advance anyone. This usually doesn't sit well with Western society... I frequently meet 6-7 year olds running around with black belts (Taekwondo)...
I knew a very well trained guy who was wearing a white belt for over 10 years because he didn't have money to travel to meet Hanshi. When he finally met him, his advancement was up to 4th kyu...
Belts are totally dependent on Master's vision of your progress... There are exams sometimes but you are judged not just according to your technical skill level... For a black belt you may be asked to perform a kata (1 out of 70...)... or he gives you a few to choose from.
You will need to get internally motivated to get fit. There is a very detailed stretching of all joints performed after a few minutes of meditation. Similar to Tai Chi. All commends are in Japanese, no shoes. There are no beginner's lessons. Everyone trains together. This has huge benefits, if you can't see instructor's movements, just look at the guy next to you with a higher belt.
After meditation and stretching instructor precedes to short combinations repeated many times. These are in preparation for a full kata. Those who know many katas, can immediately figure out which kata is going to be practiced during training... At the end, kata is repeated many times, 10-20 times. It's a great way to learn all the moves. Another beneficial thing is that every move is explained and practiced in detail. It means that advanced practitioners don't just mindlessly repeat moves but know exactly what happens with their bodies and those who attack them at all times. You imagine opponents attacking you not just kick, punch and block in order... Some katas are pretty long, 60-70 moves... If you put your heart into it, you will reap great benefits. If you don't, you will eventually get your black belt anyway... After years of training and meeting Hanshi. You may feel crappy about it, though.
This style is not about getting uke or wazari, it's about ippon only. Someone who attacks well trained guy in this style will get seriously hurt... Kicks and punches are executed with full power, it's why there is no kumite. Like late Hanshi said:"It's too dangerous, someone could die... "
There is no "showing" that you can hurt someone by slowing down or withdrawing your punch. It's a full blast assault to finish the fight with one technique. Always aiming a few inches past the target for maximum damage... It is completely different mind set, you don't worry about disqualification for brutal fighting or illegal technique... Everything is legal in a street fight. They always used to say that UFC has no rules. That's a lie. Eye gauging? Cupping ears with full power? Breaking a knee with a first opportunity? That's all taught in traditional martial arts...
To summarize, it takes much longer to become advanced in true traditional style, no doubt. If you want to fight bullies, defend yourself or compete, Shotokan and Kyokushin are great for it. So are other styles of martial arts. And it won't even take that long if your instructor pushes you hard and you dedicate yourself fully.
Traditional style is more about lifestyle not physical prowess.
Doshinkan is not advertised because not many people want this kind of structure. No belt exams every 3 months? That's shocking for people around here (US)...
I've got to 1st Kyu in Doshinkan and old Hanshi passed away... I practiced it for a few years after but had no chance to meet new Hanshi at that time. It means, I will have brown belt in this style for the rest of my life... You need to start from white belt, even if you have high belts from other styles. Plus, first 4 belts are white, anyway...
Like I said, it's a lifestyle, who cares about belts. Promotions are usually once a year. If you feel that there is no way for you to get to a black belt because of age or physical limitations, that's a great option for you. A lot of highly educated people practice this style... It may take 6 years or more but no one will make you do alligators across the gym...
There is an anual meet in Southern Germany in July. 1 week long. 2 trainings a day, outdoors. Great experience. In 90-ties it was around 300 practitioners every year...
Due to surgeries and serious injuries I don't practice any martial art anymore. I obused my body too much when I was young... Too bad, I definitely had a spirit for it. Still have...

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