Dojo challenging? Still active?

[Steve]

CNA? Which cert is that?

Certified Nursing Assistant. My high school aged daughter is taking a class right now on that. Running start program in cooperation with the community college and several area homes. Takes 1 semester.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Many years ago, 2 American guys went to Taiwan in different years. Both asked "open challenge" to fight anybody in Taiwan. The 2nd guy didn't find anybody wanted to accept the challenge. The 1st guy did. These 2 pictures were from that "challenge".

To challenge just one school is one thing. To go to a foreign country and have open challenge to everybody in that country is something else.

- Courage?
- Crazy?
- Willing to test your skill?
- Searching for truth?
- ...

When Taiwan newspaper interview the 2nd guy, he said that in Taiwan, nobody was qualified to teach him. One day he met an old man in the park. He asked the old man about the application of the Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea." While the old man tried to explain the application to him, he moves behind the old man gave that old man a "bear hug", he then said, "What will you do now?" The old man took him down. He then asked what move did the old man used to take him down. The old man told him to figure it out himself. The old man then left.

To challenge someone face to face is one thing, pretending to be friendly and ask question, suddenly attack someone from behind is something else.

This thread just remind me these 3 challenges that happened about 40 years ago.

 

[RhythmGJ]

In Bruce Lee movies, yes. "So, you want to challenge the entire dojo? You must be tired of living!"

Count Dante tried that stuff for real back in the 70's; it didn't end well (Google search: "dojo wars").

Other than that, No, never heard if it, and must assume that it was _ever_ done, that it's been a very long time...


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[RhythmGJ]

Oh, sorry, I missed some thread and didn't see that someone had already referenced Count Dante.

Crazy stuff!


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[Transk53]

When someone challenges you,

- you fight him with open hand, if you lose,
- you come back with knife, if you lose again,
- you come back with gun, if you still lose,
- you sue him,

Makes about much sense than the fact that tomorrow I am going to Mars!

 

[Buka]

Since the beginning of time - some guys just want to fight each other.

 

[Transk53]

Since the beginning of time - some guys just want to fight each other.

Yep and just as many get people to do it for them

 

[elder999]

Many years ago, 2 American guys went to Taiwan in different years. Both asked "open challenge" to fight anybody in Taiwan. The 2nd guy didn't find anybody wanted to accept the challenge. The 1st guy did. These 2 pictures were from that "challenge".

To challenge just one school is one thing. To go to a foreign country and have open challenge to everybody in that country is something else.

- Courage?
- Crazy?
- Willing to test your skill?
- Searching for truth?
- ...

When Taiwan newspaper interview the 2nd guy, he said that in Taiwan, nobody was qualified to teach him. One day he met an old man in the park. He asked the old man about the application of the Taiji "needle at the bottom of the sea." While the old man tried to explain the application to him, he moves behind the old man gave that old man a "bear hug", he then said, "What will you do now?" The old man took him down. He then asked what move did the old man used to take him down. The old man told him to figure it out himself. The old man then left.

To challenge someone face to face is one thing, pretending to be friendly and ask question, suddenly attack someone from behind is something else.

This thread just remind me these 3 challenges that happened about 40 years ago.

I knew Frank-we both have Kenpo certs signed by John McSweeney. Shame about him, really. One of Chang Dung Sheng's senior students-that was, in fact, the old man in the park of your story, if I'm not mistaken, and that's how he came to be his student, and adopted son."Adopted son" first, so he could become his student, I guess. Frank actually starred in a couple of Taiwanese gung-fu movies. I called Frank a friend, and I'm a friend to many of his students still-I grew up with one or two of them! (Frank was always kind of crazy, and then he really went crazy, I guess......)

Challenges used to happen back in NY, back in the day-sometimes entire dojos challenged each other, and went to war-it wasn't pretty-in fact, it pretty stupid most of the time. I think two tiger-claw kwoons challenged each other pretty openly back in the late 90's, but I wasn't there for that, and don't know exactly what happened or what it was about. I remember the gung-fu community generally being pretty cooperative and respectful of each other back when I was in NY.....

When he opened the first Enshin karate dojo in Denver, back in the 80's, Joko Ninomiya was challenged a couple of times. Those people were foolish, and he showed them the error of their ways.(Challenging a World Open winner in his own dojo? Very definition of "foolish."

)

When I got back from Japan, and went back to college, I was shopping around for someplace local to train (the closest Kyokushin dojos were in NYC-a once or twice a week thing at best, and I wanted more, since I had lots of time). A tae kwon do school took my looking in their store front window with my gi slung over my shoulder as a challenge......didn't train with them.That was in 1981....

Fast forward a few years, and, shortly after another local instructor was found shot dead in his school, I met a challenge from someone on a Saturday, shortly after class. My then three year old son was playing on the mat, while students milled about and changed. The guy appeared to be in fairly good shape, and somewhat deranged, insisting that he "challenged the master of this dojo," and I said, "Let me call my sensei," picked up the phone and hit him in the head with it so he would lay down. Then I tied him up, sent someone next door to the police-supply store (run by someone I'[d known since Cub Scouts) and had the cops take the "challenger" away.

As others have said, the advent of the MMA school has made the "challenge" obsolete. Go to one, sign the mat-waiver, and you'll be tested, fair and honorably enough, with no need to go disrupting anyone's routine or harmony-which is, I'm told, the very essence of good manners and honor.

And it's likely you won't even have to go to the hospital afterwards.....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the old man in the park of your story,

The 1st challenge story was about Frank. Frank became GM Chang's adopted son because GM Chang was the chief judge in that challenge fight between Frank and 吴三珠Wu San-Zhou.

The 2nd challenge story was not him but about Bruce Kumar Frantzis.

 

[elder999]

The 1st challenge story was about Frank. The 2nd challenge story was not him but about Bruce Kumar Frantzis.

Yeah, thanks-I knew that, and you said it in your post, but I wasn't quite awake yet....I actually heard how Frank met Chang Tung Sheng, but I've forgotten since....I think it was actually much less dramatic....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah, thanks-I knew that, and you said it in your post, but I wasn't quite awake yet....I actually heard how Frank met Chang Tung Sheng, but I've forgotten since....I think it was actually much less dramatic....

Beside these 2 guys, Robert Smith was the 3rd guy. The world must have changed quite a bit. Nothing like this ever come up on the news any more.

 

[elder999]

The 1st challenge story was about Frank. Frank became GM Chang's adopted son because GM Chang was the chief judge in that challenge fight between Frank and 吴三珠Wu San-Zhou.

The 2nd challenge story was not him but about Bruce Kumar Frantzis.

I guess Frank "had to be" adopted because he was someone else's student, and it was the only way GM Chang could take him as a student without being rude.

 

[elder999]

Beside these 2 guys, Robert Smith was the 3rd guy. The world must have changed quite a bit. Nothing like this ever come up on the news any more.

And yeah, Robert Smith was lucky to have not been killed.....

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Is "Dojo Challenging still active"? Sure. There'll always be someone insecure enough, aggressive enough, obnoxious enough, or just plain stupid enough to do that.

But last I checked, it's the 21st century, and I live in a mostly civilized nation. It's not the Han Dynasty anymore. So, anyone moronic enough to challenge me, you can deal with the boys in blue, and the man in black.

 

[Buka]

Is "Dojo Challenging still active"? Sure. There'll always be someone insecure enough, aggressive enough, obnoxious enough, or just plain stupid enough to do that.

But last I checked, it's the 21st century, and I live in a mostly civilized nation. It's not the Han Dynasty anymore. So, anyone moronic enough to challenge me, you can deal with the boys in blue, and the man in black.

That right there.

 

[Deleted member 32980]

It's nice to see the couple stories that popped up.

I want to bring up something and I want you guys to expand on it. It's a couple things:

1. American "senseis" that teach night classes and such at "dojos" is said to do it just for money and the students really don't learn anything other than katas how to loose money. I know a few people that the senseis now are a-holes and ask too much money. Are these teachers based on greed?


2. Are most American students in dojos feel like they are bad-a because they are in a martial arts class?

 

[Tez3]

It's nice to see the couple stories that popped up.

I want to bring up something and I want you guys to expand on it. It's a couple things:

1. American "senseis" that teach night classes and such at "dojos" is said to do it just for money and the students really don't learn anything other than katas how to loose money. I know a few people that the senseis now are a-holes and ask too much money. Are these teachers based on greed?


2. Are most American students in dojos feel like they are bad-a because they are in a martial arts class?

Would I be right in guessing you aren't actually American or weren't at any rate? I don't mean that rudely, it's just the way you write English and things that you post like the above lead me to believe you aren't American born because you don't seem to understand a lot what native born Americans seem to. If I'm wrong I apologise but if I'm right please say so because it makes understanding what you write and why you write a lot easier to understand and if we can do that you will receive a lot less flak for your posts.

 

[Deleted member 32980]

Let's get this straight.

1. I am American and my first lang is English. I studied old English and such which bonded with my style in saying anything.

2. I have many personalities.

3. I come off a completely different person than I am Irl. I'm actually a nice guy contrary what I seem like in posts. And I don't talk about myself Irl

4. Don't worry, I got a flak jacket. ^^

 

[Tez3]

Let's get this straight.

1. I am American and my first lang is English. I studied old English and such which bonded with my style in saying anything.

2. I have many personalities.

3. I come off a completely different person than I am Irl. I'm actually a nice guy contrary what I seem like in posts. And I don't talk about myself Irl

4. Don't worry, I got a flak jacket. ^^

Ok that was as clear as mud. I don't know what you mean by old English but what you write isn't actually understandable English which is making the process of having a conversation with you difficult. I'm going to leave it there.

 

[Deleted member 32980]

Ok that was as clear as mud. I don't know what you mean by old English but what you write isn't actually understandable English which is making the process of having a conversation with you difficult. I'm going to leave it there.

What I'm trying to say is my style of speaking is a little cloudy sometimes. I'm usually in a hurry. I'm a busy guy