Do you think the U.S. would benefit from a national medical plan?

[pknox]

According to various surveys, the leading cause of bankruptcy among Americans is an ability to pay medical bills. We are one of the few industrialized countries that does not offer government-sponsored medical coverage to its citizens. Is this a good or a bad thing? Do you think there should be a compulsory plan offered to everyone? How would you make it work (free or chargeable, do we base it off of another country's model or develop our own, how would privacy be handled, etc.)? Are there undesirable effects you could see developing from the acceptance of such a plan?

Those MT'ers who come from countries that have such a plan -- I am especially interested in your comments and observations.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

We have one. Its called Medicade. Its open to everyone (who can navigate the maze of paperwork and requirements) and accepted everywhere (accept by those docs who either cant wait a year for payment or navigate the paperwork)

But its there.

Oh...and I'm not eligable as I make too much money. :rofl:


:rofl:

I seriously wish we had something more patient friendly. Getting proper medical care shouldn't require folks to use the ER all the time and then pray they misfile your bill.

 

[MA-Caver]

About a year or two ago I got bitten by a rattlesnakes (no autographs..please).
Went to emergency room got treated and spent over night in the hospital and was given 7 vials of anti-venom.

The final bill: $21,000+. The pharmacy alone was 16K (as part of the rest of the bill).

So should there be a National Medical Plan??

I think so yes in two words... Socialized Medicine!

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
We have one. Its called Medicade. Its open to everyone (who can navigate the maze of paperwork and requirements) and accepted everywhere (accept by those docs who either cant wait a year for payment or navigate the paperwork)

But its there.

Oh...and I'm not eligable as I make too much money. :rofl:


:rofl:

I seriously wish we had something more patient friendly. Getting proper medical care shouldn't require folks to use the ER all the time and then pray they misfile your bill.

Kaith -

It's the income restrictions and lack of universal physician acceptance I'm getting at. Because Medicaid has them, it is not a truly compulsory. I'm talking about something available to and accepted by absolutely everybody.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by MACaver
About a year or two ago I got bitten by a rattlesnakes (no autographs..please).
Went to emergency room got treated and spent over night in the hospital and was given 7 vials of anti-venom.

The final bill: $21,000+. The pharmacy alone was 16K (as part of the rest of the bill).

So should there be a National Medical Plan??

I think so yes in two words... Socialized Medicine!

Wow. That is totally ridiculous. In a country where we can send people to the moon multiple times, nobody should have to pay over 20 grand to get a rattlesnake bite taken care of.

 

[don bohrer]

We should have preventative healthcare for every american, and free for those below poverty.

don

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by don bohrer
We should have preventative healthcare for every american, and free for those below poverty.

don

Don:

I agree. How do you propose we run such a plan? For those who work, are companies going to be responsible for providing coverage? If so, who will pay for it (the company, the employee, someone else)? What issues would arise from implementing such an initiative?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Fund it as follows:

Under $20k / year - you pay nothing
$20-30k/yr - .5% of your weekly income is deducted. ($150/yr or $2.89/wk)
$30k-50k/yr 1%
50k-100k 2$
100k-500k 3%
500k+ 5% ($480/wk. Mind you, at $500k, youre making $9615/wk.)


Who benifits?
anyone making under 30k/year.
Make it free totally for anyone making under $10k per year. Must bring previous years tax return for proof.
Unemployed people registered with the local unemployment center get free treatment for as long as they are registered. Registered in this sence means 'on file and have checked in in the last 60 days. Use the same system used to track down deadbeat parents to verify emplyment.


Additional things:
Regulate the medical field so that BS charges like $17k for antivenom are a think of the past. Too many inflated charges for BS...all most all of it ending up in the bank accounts of the insurance agencies.

Not the Doctors.

 

[pknox]

Kaith -

If I ever become President (HIGHLY unlikely), you Sir, will be getting a call.

An added benefit is that by requiring people to use tax returns as proof, you are encouraging them to file taxes. If we let the INS people cool their jets and declare amnesty during that period, even those who are in the country illegally will get coverage. While that might not be popular politically, it would be helpful. I use to work in an ER in a highly populated urban area, and I would say that at least 30% of the people we treated were illegal/undocumented. The biggest problem for them was getting prescriptions, as everyone wanted to see some kind of ID. The reality of it is that very few if any of them are paying now, so why not at least give them a better chance at being healthy, as well as strengthening the general health of the people at large, since the easier access to meds will reduce the spread of communicable diseases.

The regulation thing for medicine and pharmaceuticals has been a long time coming. I still vividly remember when my first daughter was born in 1996, and the nurse showed me what the bill would have been. We were in the hospital for a standard delivery, got there around noon, spent one overnight, and were gone by the next day at 10 am. Luckily, I had excellent benefits, and paid a total of $20. The bill I would have paid was over $6000! When I asked the nurse why it was so high, she said, "oh, they can charge basically whatever they want, because the insurance company only pays a certain amount of money anyway." She then added, "don't worry about it -- you've got insurance." I asked her what people without insurance have to do. She just shrugged and said something to the effect of, "I don't know - but that's their problem." Uh huh.

 

[don bohrer]

pknox I am really going to have to think on this for a bit.

don

 

[arnisador]

I don't care whether it would be beneficial or not--it's a moral issue.

Yet, Canada's system and the UK's system have problems I wouldn't want.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The thing here is, we can study their systems, see where the flaws are, and fix them before implimenting our own.

The problem is, the Insurance industry will lobby against it...the AMA is against it (as it cuts their income) and the politcians who dance at the lobbiests money trough will vote against it.

Too bad none of those bastards have to deal with the system from our end.

Does my idea have flaws? Yup. But, before we impliment it, we can polish it, examine that which has gone before, use the best and discard the rest.

No one should ever go hungry, cold, illiterate or sick in this country. No one.

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
The thing here is, we can study their systems, see where the flaws are, and fix them before implimenting our own.

The problem is, the Insurance industry will lobby against it...the AMA is against it (as it cuts their income) and the politcians who dance at the lobbiests money trough will vote against it.

Too bad none of those bastards have to deal with the system from our end.

Does my idea have flaws? Yup. But, before we impliment it, we can polish it, examine that which has gone before, use the best and discard the rest.

No one should ever go hungry, cold, illiterate or sick in this country. No one.

Yes, but this country has a bad problem of "this plan isn't working... lets spend more money on it next year."
The insurance companies, pharmacutical companies are making TRILLIONS of dollars each year because there is NO regulation on their pricing. Mebbe I sound like a libral but until they stop being so greedy and feeling the power that they can charge whatever they want for their medicines and coverage and whatever, the problem of extreme (forget HIGH) cost of medical care will continue.
Seems that no-one is going to stand up on the floor of the U.S. Senate and the House or anywhere in Washington to petition for regulation against this actrocity.
I am not going to be a politician (can't afford the campaigns anyway) and don't plan to be. But someone needs to... question is how long can they do it before a bribe *ahem* excuse me gift is going to be large enough that they can't ignore it. And if they do... then it's known as politicial suicide and they'll find little or no support besides them when they present their bill to the house.
I don't forsee it happening in my lifetime or the time after that.
It will take a radical (revolutionary) change in the whole structure of the house/senate/congress before that can happen.

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
No one should ever go hungry, cold, illiterate or sick in this country. No one. [/B]

BTW, Yes you're right no one should... but they do.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

We wont have a revolution. Too many sheep. Plus, even I aint stupid enough to try n use my little rattan sticks on an Abrams.

Sadly, the ones who need to fix it are opart of the problem. This senator won't sign off on it unless this other senator agrees to ok his bill for the new water park. A bill should go thru pure, no riders, no smoozin. PAC and Lobbiest money should be illegal, and -any- official caught taking it should be declared an 'enemy combatant' and shipped to Guantano (or however you spell it)

They wont fix it...they get too many perks from it being broken.

The only way to start is to vote them -ALL- out and start fresh. Then, put in term limits, make em pay for their own health care, hair cuts, cars, etc.

I have to. Why do they get free food, room, board, hair cuts, cars, car insurance, medical, dental, optical, etc?

Better yet....make em go to the community clinics. Let em really mingle with their constituants.

Reality might do them some good.

And I might get rich and retire from posting on internet forums too. :rofl:

 

[MountainSage]

My mother and wife are nurses and I am beginning nurses training, just info. Will the socialist please step up and leave the country, socialize medicine doesn't work in Canada, England, Russia, etc, what make a person think it will work in the USA? The only advice I can give to all of you on this forum is to find your local LIBERTARIAN party member and change your voter registration to the LIBERTARIAN party. The best way to fix this problem and many others is to get enough people in major third parties to create a three or four party system. Socialized medicine cost the same as insurance based medicine, the only difference is were the money comes from your pocket/insurance or your taxes. Many people don't see the down side of socialized medicine because they aren't on the battlelines. Some medicade patient show up at the hospital late at night to get a hangnail removed in the E.R. at a great cost instead of waiting a couple of hours to got to the less expensive doctors clinic. They don't have to pay and they don't care what the cost is, yet even with insurance a person is aware of the cost factor. MACarver, my wife informs me that about the time of your rattlesnake bite there was a shortage of anti-venom in the USA and the price went throught the roof. My wife is curious how you got a mild to moderate rattlesnake bite anyway? Yes, 7 vials of anti-venom isn't a serious snake bite.

Mountainsage

 

[pknox]

MountainSage:

Thanks for the different perspective. Let me try to address your concerns individually.

socialize medicine doesn't work in Canada, England, Russia, etc, what make a person think it will work in the USA?

A matter of opinion, and one you are entitled to. Would any Canadian, British, or Russian MT members like to refute this?

Socialized medicine cost the same as insurance based medicine, the only difference is were the money comes from your pocket/insurance or your taxes.

Well, that may be the case, but it's not the only difference. In the case of socialized medicine, everybody has coverage. In the case of insurance-based medicine, only those who have insurance do. This is not just a plight for those who are unemployed -- there are plenty of people in our current system that work but do not have insurance, as they either own their own business, or their companies cannot afford to provide coverage.

Many people don't see the down side of socialized medicine because they aren't on the battlelines. Some medicade patient show up at the hospital late at night to get a hangnail removed in the E.R. at a great cost instead of waiting a couple of hours to got to the less expensive doctors clinic.

I'm not doing to claim that doesn't happen, as I worked in an ER and did see it. However, how about the reverse? The person who doesn't seek medical care for a severe issue, solely because they know they can't pay for it, and makes too much to be considered for Medicaid? I personally know of many people who had bothersome conditions turn into more severe, chronic, life-endangering ones, simply because there was nowhere to go. The cost of having the hangnail removed shouldn't be the major issue -- medical care is something that should be designed to heal most effectively, regardless of profit potential. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of HMO's, many decisions on availability of medical care are not being made by physicians and hospital administrators, but instead accountants and insurance executives.

MACarver, my wife informs me that about the time of your rattlesnake bite there was a shortage of anti-venom in the USA and the price went throught the roof.

And if the price soared to such a point that it was generally unaffordable, a cap should have been put on it, as it has become a matter of public health and safety. Imagine if a cancer or AIDS vaccine were developed, but there was a shortage in supply (a pretty likely scenario, actually) -- should only those who can pay the very high price be allowed to survive? Should potential patients present a recent tax form or pay stub upon admission? I would love to find out how much the cost of acquiring the anti-venom actually arose during the shortage. I wouldn't be surprised to find it was minimal, and the producer was gouging to take advantage of the low supply. I also wouldn't be surprised to find they held back production to create the shortage in the first place. In the pharmaceutical industry, worse has happened.

 

[Ender]

Moutiansage is correct. Socilaized medicine will not solve our ills (pun intended). Canada was rated #2 in the world in healthcare quality before they went to a national healthcare system. Now they are ranked 17. Plus thousands of Canadians come pouring across the border to get access to American healthcare because of the great bureaucracy up there. Talk about illegals using our resources! in addition, it often takes 6 months or longer to have a surgery done, and I am not talking about cosmetic surgery.

Sure it would be nice for everyone to have have healthcare, but the problem is people want unlimited access to limited resources. People go filling emergency rooms with the flu and other common illnesses. And do wewant the government running this? How many of you have to the social security office? The department of motor vehicles? has any one been to an effciient governement agency? our healthcare systms would become as one of those agencies.

Socialized medicine attacks the wrong end of the problem. The solution is to provide more resources, not more access. Then market forces will bring the price down. For example, the AMA only allows a certain number of doctors to graduate from Medical school per year. The AMA is similar to a powerful union and has a tight grip on this market. They only accredit a certain number of seats for Med school. And there are people that are qualified enough to attend Med school, but cannot because they cannot gain entrance. Seats are reserved for foreign students and not necessarily Americans. More doctors graduatiing would translate to more competition and that would lead to lower wages and lower prices to the consumer.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by Ender
More doctors graduatiing would translate to more competition and that would lead to lower wages and lower prices to the consumer.

I could definitely see why they would be against it then. That's an excellent point, and would make a wonderful target for reform.

 

[khadaji]

I have been away a long time. This is just the subject to get me back. Oh, and martial arts stuff too

I think I have a good plan. We should get the same health plan that the congress and senet get. Its only fair. So what ever plan they have, modify, and etc we get too...

Wether we pay directly out of our own pocket, or pay through our taxes i see that we still loose money. as a result I do not mind doing it through the tax method, becasue in the end i will still loose the money anyhow. I think of my self as a nice person, and i like to help people, so if the few pennies that i pay in taxes can save someones life it makes me feel good. When i am in trouble i also feel happy that others then help me out. Debts paid, and debts earned.