Do you need to hate your attacker?

Deaf Smith

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Depends.

Blind hate? No. That makes you do stupid things.

But a cooler hate, one where you take them as the enemy and don't care if you hurt them yet you are not compelled to attack them at the first moment you can, that’s' better. You sort of lose your empathy for them. Instead, with that kind of hate, you look for a good moment to attack.

But hate helps because it jacks you up. It gets the adrenaline flowing but does not immobilize you like fear does.

In fact, fear can be turned into hate. It's just a mental step you have to make.

Deaf
 

searcher

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Relying on any emotion to drive your defense is a huge danger. If you need that hate or anger to get adrenal dump for pumping you up, then you need to do something else.
 

sgtmac_46

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Relying on any emotion to drive your defense is a huge danger. If you need that hate or anger to get adrenal dump for pumping you up, then you need to do something else.
I wouldn't go that far.......anger is a pretty useful tool, when you learn to control it......and anyone who doesn't get ANGRY when another person is trying to bite their ear off, or gouge their eyes out, probably isn't human.

That's why human beings developed anger...I mean the evolutionary process developed the adrenal state in mammals (or God, or whatever you believe)..the purpose of anger and fear is to cause the adrenal state that allows us greater strength and stamina.

Hate really doesn't enter in to that equation because it's a higher level conscious idea.....and we really don't have time for hate in the heat of battle....anger and fear, however, are part of the mid-brain response to aggression.

In truth, those cold customers who don't appear to have fear or anger in the middle of a fight usually do......they've just learn to cool it down to the level they need it at, and dial it up and down like a rheostat through training and experience.......they know how to turn it in to COLD anger.


In fact, the coolest customers, the stone cold killers, they feel the fear and anger, too, even though you wouldn't recognize it on them......they feel it and have learned to ride it.....most of them enjoy that feeling, which is why it doesn't overwhelm them and isn't as recognizable in the same way it is in someone who is overwhelmed by the adrenal state. Adrenaline is a drug......and like many drugs, constant exposure too it increases our tolerance too it, to the point we need higher and higher levels to experience the same response.
 

jarrod

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when attacked, i like to develop a feeling of hatred which i then temper with a compassionate feeling of connectedness to my attacker. this helps me channel my aggression toward him while simultaneously keeping my spiritual values. then i wonder where my wallet is, & what day it is.

jf
 

sgtmac_46

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when attacked, i like to develop a feeling of hatred which i then temper with a compassionate feeling of connectedness to my attacker. this helps me channel my aggression toward him while simultaneously keeping my spiritual values. then i wonder where my wallet is, & what day it is.

jf
You might want to take it easy with those Irish Cremes! :cheers:
 

exile

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you're right, i'm switching to bushmill's!

jf

No, lad—Jamieson's. Not nearly as smoky in flavor (if you're going to drink Bushmill's, might as well drink Scotch...)

I do think anger, hatred or whatever can be a useful tool for redirecting the adrenaline surge in responding to the threat from an attacker that for so many people takes the form of fear. A lot of writers on streetwise SD, people like Peyton Quinn and Lorne Christiansen, spend a good deal of time talking about the psychololgical and physiological effects of that surge, and cautioning that your SD methods must take into account things such as the reduced visual field, the loss of fine motor control, and other constraints on fancy complex moves, in favor of relatively simple, immediately effective and easily trained and retained responses to common assault initiations. They emphasize—and these are guys with years of serious bouncing/security experience—that you have to channel that intense adrenaline reaction into focused, outward-directed energy to drive your counterattack. One good thing about anger, and hatred to some extend, is that it can trump the existential terror of being under deadly threat: if you can focus outward on what you really long to do, permanently, to the face, teeth and eyes of this bastard who's putting your life at risk for no good reason, you can switch from self-preservation fear mode to combat mode much more easily.

The trick I think is to not let it get in the way, to use it to get your fighting blood up, but not to let it take over. Confidence and determination to take the fight to the attacker and put him on the defensive—good. Blind rage that causes you to forget that this is all about keeping yourself alive and healthy, not about crippling the other guy regardless of whether that's necessary to end the fight, or about rushing in too soon without watching carefully what he's doing—bad. Classic good servant/bad master issue.
 

Jenna

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Hatred is not instinctive but a conscious afterthought. Anger is the instinctive emotion and but is an outwardly directed energy and will [excepting your yogic adeptness] subject you to loss of your own control. The preferred mindset imho is one focussing on self-preservation ie. not their destruction; YOUR survival.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
 

zDom

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Nah, I don't even need to dislike them :)

Simply a matter of:

Threat level = X

So strike THIS deep or throw THIS hard or ...
 

morph4me

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No.

You need not to "hate" or "fear" you need to not even CARE.

Your own body will tell you when it's "go time" by giving you the signals of the "dump" that keeps getting mistaken as fear, but all it is is shifting gears to make ready.

This person is not an "object of hate" or a "scary, intimidatiing guy" he is Just Another Job.


Beat me to it
 
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Joab

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I'll start my post by saying this....while I am not anti God, (I was raised in a Catholic household) I don't like to bring religion of any kind into a martial arts debate. That being said...IMO, if someone were to attack you, and this can range from a heated verbal exchange to an actual physical confrontation, they obviously have no remorse or respect for you, therefore, I certainly am not going to have any for them.

I think it would be more anger, as it was said by a few others, instead of hate. Sure, hate may play a part, but I would say primarily anger...anger for what this person is attempting to do to me.

Well, it's the conflict I had with the teacher saying "you have to hate!" and eventually resulted in my dropping out of the school. To divource this conflict from the One who I follow and worship, namely Jesus Christ, takes away the entire origin of where the conflict comes from. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, and of course His teachings against hate and pro love of everyone, including your enemy is where this conflict comes from. There would be no point in writing the post without including why I have a problem with hating anyone, including an attacker, even if they are in the wrong. I believe I could even kill an attacker if there was no other alternative, but I would pray for his soul afterwards, hate what he is doing but not hate the man himself.
 
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Joab

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Instead of hating, I try to come from a place of righteous anger. Just try to make the situation feel real. If you are attacked on the street it may not be that you hate the guy, but are rather offended by him. Use that and things flow better, at least for me they do.

I like the righteous anger idea, kind of like when Jesus cleansed the Temple by driving out the money changers. I'll keep that in mind, I like that concept. Yours was the post that spoke to my heart the best, although there were many fine other posts as well, a special thanks for your post.
 
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thardey

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I like the righteous anger idea, kind of like when Jesus cleansed the Temple by driving out the money changers. I'll keep that in mind, I like that concept. Yours was the post that spoke to my heart the best, although there were many fine other posts as well, a special thanks for your post.


My take on it (as a fellow Christian) is that in loving your friends, and enemies, is that you can focus on being angry, or "hating" the evil that the attacker intends to do. In fact, that is not a bad place to be legally, or in the sense of dealing with the emotional fallout yourself. Your job, in defending yourself, and your loved ones, is to detroy the "evil action" that the attacker is doing. Once that action is destroyed, or stopped, or avoided, you do not need to continue to keep fighting the person himself.

That's also a kind of "hate" that you don't have to "turn on" in the moment -- it's the cool, deliberate kind of hate that others have been talking about. It's not right to harbor hate towards people, but it's fine to hate actions that hurt people, or, more importantly, actions that separate and destroy relationships.

That is, hate the attack, not the attacker.
 
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Joab

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My take on it (as a fellow Christian) is that in loving your friends, and enemies, is that you can focus on being angry, or "hating" the evil that the attacker intends to do. In fact, that is not a bad place to be legally, or in the sense of dealing with the emotional fallout yourself. Your job, in defending yourself, and your loved ones, is to detroy the "evil action" that the attacker is doing. Once that action is destroyed, or stopped, or avoided, you do not need to continue to keep fighting the person himself.

That's also a kind of "hate" that you don't have to "turn on" in the moment -- it's the cool, deliberate kind of hate that others have been talking about. It's not right to harbor hate towards people, but it's fine to hate actions that hurt people, or, more importantly, actions that separate and destroy relationships.

That is, hate the attack, not the attacker.

Amen!
 

Josh Oakley

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actually, I choose to love my enemy. I do everything to avoid a fight, and when I'm in a fight I do as little damage as possible to get out of it. I only kill if actually necessary.
 

sgtmac_46

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Hatred is not instinctive but a conscious afterthought. Anger is the instinctive emotion and but is an outwardly directed energy and will [excepting your yogic adeptness] subject you to loss of your own control. The preferred mindset imho is one focussing on self-preservation ie. not their destruction; YOUR survival.
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
I respect the opinion, but I humbly believe just the opposite. There are situations where aggression will save you, when caution won't. Meaning that thoughts of your own survival, and whether or not you will get through, will make you hesitate and ensure just the opposite.

There are times when following Bruce Lee's statement apply.....

"Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him." -Bruce Lee

Worrying about surviving makes you reactive.......some situations call for being pro-active, aggressive.


It's a lot like race car driving or poisonous snake handling......if you're focusing on NOT hitting the wall or NOT getting bitten, you probably WILL hit the wall or you WILL get bitten. That's why so many martial arts spend so much time focusing on 'No Mind'.........fixating on the possible outcomes slows the response.

Again, there are times when aggression will save you when caution won't........fortunately for most folks in our society they are likely to never be confronted by those situations, because we are a relatively safe society.
 

MA-Caver

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Again, there are times when aggression will save you when caution won't........fortunately for most folks in our society they are likely to never be confronted by those situations, because we are a relatively safe society.
Yeah, true... but for how long?
 

Jenna

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I respect the opinion, but I humbly believe just the opposite. There are situations where aggression will save you, when caution won't. Meaning that thoughts of your own survival, and whether or not you will get through, will make you hesitate and ensure just the opposite.

I do not disagree with your opinion and but I think there is a delineation between and between anger and aggression. The aggression that you refer to, I agree is necessary, whereas the anger that I referred to is detrimental to the focussed mindset or the calm-yet-alert mind that you alluded to.

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna
 
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