do actions really speak louder then words?

JC2005

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so I was at the track running with my friend, and then playing some catch. we didnt realize it but for about 20 minutes a group of 5 guys were watching us. about 20 minutes later my friend and I started to leave and they confronted us trying to take our football and pushing us around. My friend is only 14 so he was extremely scared so I told him to walk away and dont worry about me. I told the guys to stop and that I was a trained martial artist. some of them laughed, whille some started to look worried. I could tell that my words were working with some of them and I just had to try and keep it up for a but more but one of them came out of no wehere and tried to sucker punch me. I saw it out of the corner of my eye and I caught it and I pulled his arm behind his back and told his friends to leave me alone. they all immedietaly said ok just dont hurt him. I pushed the guy that I was holding into his friends and they all took off.


I think what I was trying to say is that even though sometimes newer martial arts students want to show off what, they know that you should try and avoid any confrontation with people. using words not physically hurting anyone. in my school with the little kids class we actually teach them to use there voice if they are in trouble. and I never thought that I would ever have to use my voice to get out of a situation but it certanly helped out yesterday


JC2005
 

Martial Tucker

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In general. I think you did a nice job of staying calm and handling what could have been a nasty situation. I'll offer a couple of thoughts though...

Personally, if confronted, I would never tell someone I was a martial artist. Many people take that as challenge to see if you are telling the truth, or even if they believe you, they want to see if they can beat you. I think it would generally attract more challenges than it would deter. Second reason is, the element of surprise is VERY important in any conflict. Why alert a potential assailant to the fact that you have training, and are likely to be using all four limbs in a coordinated attack?

Again, I think you responded admirably, but had it been me, I would have just said that I didn't want to fight and then try to walk away. If/when one of them goes for you, then you respond with force, as you did. Since you had the first assailant under control, it would be possible to use him as a shield between yourself and the others. By then it would be clear that you are trained and you could continue to use him as a shield as you try to verbally defuse the situation.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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It might have been wise just to give them the ball and leave. You could always make a police report and then potentially get your ball back. Bottom line, 5 on 1 is very bad odds. Fortunately you were not hurt and that is the best thing that happened in this situation.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
 
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JC2005

JC2005

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I realize that 5 on 1 odds arent very good, but these guys went to my school and I knew that most of them were all talk and if need be I could just run away because I am one of the faster people in my school. And I realize now that telling them I was a trained martial artist wasn't to bright of an idea since that might make them want to fight even more. the whole situation could have escalated out of control but I'm just glad it didnt.


JC2005
 

Jimi

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I agree with what the others have replied. One thing a lot of us have learned is that an assailant hearing you announce that you are a trained martial artist will not only insite them to want to test you, but a common response is, I would just shoot the karate guy (Kung Fu, Jujutsu, Etc... You name it). Weither or not they have a firearm with them, they may later prove to be someone looking to shoot you later now that they know you are trained. When I was in high school, myself and my friends that trained togehter were known to be training in many martial arts, which kept most others from picking fights, but we heard our share of, I'll just shot him. In response we said, do you have the gun with you?, if not, you will not get home with your trigger finger intact. This only escalated the whole thing. People will look to shoot the potential skilled martial artist. Try not to invite these people to choose you as a target. PEACE
 

painstain

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way to go. when your faced with a pack of bullies that like to hurt or cause fear i don't think walking away and letting them have your belongings is the answer. too many people want to just do nothing. i say if you have it in you, refuse. you just might keep them from doing this to someone more defenseless. i'm not saying fighting is good. but its better than living in fear or even tolerating those who hurt weaker people like five on one.

with respect,
painstain
 

Phadrus00

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Brian R. VanCise said:
It might have been wise just to give them the ball and leave. You could always make a police report and then potentially get your ball back. Bottom line, 5 on 1 is very bad odds. Fortunately you were not hurt and that is the best thing that happened in this situation.

Brian makes a great point here. Getting into a potentiallt dangerous confrontation over a ball seems risky. I understand the larger philisophical argument of not letting the bullies have their way but... With 5 people to deal with it would have been very easy for you to have stabbed without seeing it coming.

Glad you are allright and that you were able to deal with their agression sucessfully but choose your fights carefully.. literally and figuratively..

Regards,

Rob
 

MA-Caver

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JC2005 said:
so I was at the track running with my friend, and then playing some catch. we didnt realize it but for about 20 minutes a group of 5 guys were watching us. about 20 minutes later my friend and I started to leave and they confronted us trying to take our football and pushing us around. My friend is only 14 so he was extremely scared so I told him to walk away and dont worry about me. I told the guys to stop and that I was a trained martial artist. some of them laughed, whille some started to look worried. I could tell that my words were working with some of them and I just had to try and keep it up for a but more but one of them came out of no wehere and tried to sucker punch me. I saw it out of the corner of my eye and I caught it and I pulled his arm behind his back and told his friends to leave me alone. they all immedietaly said ok just dont hurt him. I pushed the guy that I was holding into his friends and they all took off.


I think what I was trying to say is that even though sometimes newer martial arts students want to show off what, they know that you should try and avoid any confrontation with people. using words not physically hurting anyone. in my school with the little kids class we actually teach them to use there voice if they are in trouble. and I never thought that I would ever have to use my voice to get out of a situation but it certanly helped out yesterday

<snip> I realize that 5 on 1 odds arent very good, but these guys went to my school and I knew that most of them were all talk and if need be I could just run away because I am one of the faster people in my school. And I realize now that telling them I was a trained martial artist wasn't to bright of an idea since that might make them want to fight even more. the whole situation could have escalated out of control but I'm just glad it didnt.

JC2005

JC I bow to an intelligent and well taught/learned student. You did many things right and only a couple of things that were along the lines of "that could've been handled better".
Glad that you see (now) the wisdom in keeping your skills hidden until brought to the fray and the reasons "why" it's important not to say anything.
In my experience what Jimi and Martial Tucker said is correct. Especially among your age group. "...oh yeah?? lets see what cha got mo-fo!" Young bucks trying out their new antlers.
That you sent your friend away is admirable and noble, it protected him from harm, but it did increase the odds against you. Something to think about. Still being scared as he was he probably woudn't have done you much good anyway as a second or at least watching your back for you. But you never know. In my younger days some of my best fight victories were becasue
You stayed alert to everything around you, again good job. The guy tried to sucker-punch you and you caught it and restrained him without further harm. That was most excellent. It held the others at bay, made them think twice about taking you on.
You had an excellent learning event. You handled it a lot better than most. Best of all no-one was seriously hurt.
These guys go to your school and no doubt will be giving you a reputation. Just what kind of a rep remains to be seen. You'll probably be challenged more (I know I was). If you handle those the same way you did the 5:1 odds ... you'll be okay I think.

What does your instructor say about this incident?

Any updates at school by the way?

I agree and (sorta kinda disagree) with Brian about just releasing the ball and reporting it to the police. Yes it was the right (CIVIL) thing to do but in a "school-yard" situation it could've lead to a beating. Giving up the ball so easily marks one for an wimp/wuss/ whatever! They got your ball easy enough, maybe kicking your *** would be just as easy... lets find out... it'll be fun. A stupid mentality I agree but it exists.
Standing up to them and handling them (the way you did) showed you weren't one to be pushed around.
If it were "...outside school grounds" then yeah giving in may have been the wiser course. But it was clearly a test to see how bad-assed they were and how much of a wimp/wuss you were. Obviously both sides failed. You're not a wimp and they're not so badassed as they thought.

:asian: You did good.
 

trueaspirer

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I think what you did was a decent responce to the situation given what you said about the bullies. However, in another situation, 5 to 1 is really bad odds, so it would be good to give them the ball and walk away (if you could). Heroics and bravery are good in their place, but you only have one life, better to have them have "won" if you walk away unscathed.
 

pstarr

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Yes, you did the right thing but, like the others, I have to agree that you shouldn't tell people (in that kind of situation) that you're a martial arts student. That alerts them and usually whets their appetite to try you out.

I'm glad things turned out so well. Nice job!
 

FearlessFreep

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agree with the others...don't tip your hand. It may give them incentive to *prove* something and escalate the situation...and it also may make them more cautious when they do come in.
 

still learning

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Hello, You did a great job of stoping something that could have turn out worst.

You trusted your instincts and it paid off.....you knew who you were up against....and also you were prepare to run....WELL DONE.

Sometimes...we must do what we feel is RIGHT! .......Aloha
 

Dark

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I'm in agreement with Caver on the school yard mentality, which is strangely like prison yard mentality. Only thing I would have done different is make the guy who tried to sucker punch say he was sorry. ;) But I've also forced a 6 foot plus under my bus seat and made him bark like a dog to keep from getting his wrist broken.

PS- DO Not force anyone under a bus and make them bark like a dog with a wrist lock, it is bad PR and you could sepended or worse!!!
 

bcbernam777

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JC2005 said:
so I was at the track running with my friend, and then playing some catch. we didnt realize it but for about 20 minutes a group of 5 guys were watching us. about 20 minutes later my friend and I started to leave and they confronted us trying to take our football and pushing us around. My friend is only 14 so he was extremely scared so I told him to walk away and dont worry about me. I told the guys to stop and that I was a trained martial artist. some of them laughed, whille some started to look worried. I could tell that my words were working with some of them and I just had to try and keep it up for a but more but one of them came out of no wehere and tried to sucker punch me. I saw it out of the corner of my eye and I caught it and I pulled his arm behind his back and told his friends to leave me alone. they all immedietaly said ok just dont hurt him. I pushed the guy that I was holding into his friends and they all took off.

I think what I was trying to say is that even though sometimes newer martial arts students want to show off what, they know that you should try and avoid any confrontation with people. using words not physically hurting anyone. in my school with the little kids class we actually teach them to use there voice if they are in trouble. and I never thought that I would ever have to use my voice to get out of a situation but it certanly helped out yesterday


JC2005


Words are power, if delivered correctly they can produce amazing results.
 

Hand Sword

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bcbernam777 said:
Words are power, if delivered correctly they can produce amazing results.

Absolutely! Look how heated things get on these threads. People even offer each other outside too! It's just words on a screen, Right?
icon7.gif
 

matt.m

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You were confident. You were also controlled. So I am also going to have to tell you that it could not have been so nice and neat. 5 on 1 are horrible odds. Sorry, I was scrappy and somewhat of a tough guy during my 5 yr stint serving in the Marines. However, I never had a 5 on 1 fight.
 

bcbernam777

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Hand Sword said:
Absolutely! Look how heated things get on these threads. People even offer each other outside too! It's just words on a screen, Right?
icon7.gif

oh absolutly ;)
 

MJS

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JC2005 said:
so I was at the track running with my friend, and then playing some catch. we didnt realize it but for about 20 minutes a group of 5 guys were watching us. about 20 minutes later my friend and I started to leave and they confronted us trying to take our football and pushing us around. My friend is only 14 so he was extremely scared so I told him to walk away and dont worry about me. I told the guys to stop and that I was a trained martial artist. some of them laughed, whille some started to look worried. I could tell that my words were working with some of them and I just had to try and keep it up for a but more but one of them came out of no wehere and tried to sucker punch me. I saw it out of the corner of my eye and I caught it and I pulled his arm behind his back and told his friends to leave me alone. they all immedietaly said ok just dont hurt him. I pushed the guy that I was holding into his friends and they all took off.


I think what I was trying to say is that even though sometimes newer martial arts students want to show off what, they know that you should try and avoid any confrontation with people. using words not physically hurting anyone. in my school with the little kids class we actually teach them to use there voice if they are in trouble. and I never thought that I would ever have to use my voice to get out of a situation but it certanly helped out yesterday


JC2005

Glad to hear that everything turned out ok for you. I don't think its a good idea to state that you know the Martial Arts. Doing that could bring on more problems that you already have at the time. Giving up your property doesn't always mean that that'll end the situation. However, if it meant not getting into a physical fight, you could've done that and then contacted the police.

Good job though with trying to verbally defuse the situation first!:)

Mike
 

DeLamar.J

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JC2005 said:
do actions really speak louder then words?JC2005

Well, if you knock someone out they are going to have a hard time saying anything. So yes, in the case above, actions do speak louder, because your the only one able to speak after that knockout.
 
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JC2005

JC2005

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DeLamar.J said:
Well, if you knock someone out they are going to have a hard time saying anything. So yes, in the case above, actions do speak louder, because your the only one able to speak after that knockout.


I suppose your right in this case but I was simply stating that you should try and not knock someone out and try and calm the situation down with words first.


JC2005
 
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