Disturbing Youth Violence MMA Generated.

MJS

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Is this an anti MMA thread? As others have said kids have done this sort of stuff probabably for ever! I imagine stone age kids were copying the adults hunting in whatever the equivalant of a backyard was. Of course it's sturpid! It's kids!

I agree with Brian. This is not anit MMA. What it is, is a discussion of kids who are putting their lives at risk! I wrestled with my friends when I was young, but the difference was, is that my parents explained fact from fiction. In the WWE or other pro wrestling events, these guys are trained on how to properly land. When the 13 yo kid does a throw like he saw on tv, to his 13 yo buddy, and his 13 yo buddy breaks his neck, then what?

As I said in another post, if these kids are a) really interested in competing and b) attending a legit school and not learning from a tape, there are a number of events out there which are safe and still provide a competitive environment.

Mike
 

Andrew Green

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Fighting has been a part of growing up since people starte growing up.

Backyard boxing and wrestling have been done, now its MMA.

But, most fighting that occurs at that age is done without gloves, without planning it, without cups/mouthguards and in anger. They are better off then those people.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it is something that we are not going to be able to make go away. Fighting is in our nature as humans, esspecially when young. Almost all kids play fight to some degree, eventually society programs it out of them. But playfighting is definately a part of growing up, some people just do it harder then others.

The only "new" thing is that now they can put videos up for the whole world to see.

Is it dangerous? Yes, but is it more dangerous then any number of "extreme sports"? I don't think so. Just looks more violent. I think trying this would definatly lead to being beat up, but anymore so then doing a face plant from trying to ride a rail on a skateboard?

Can they enter a tournament? Maybe, maybe they aren't 18 and no tournament will let them compete. Maybe they'd prefer to compete against there friends for fun, rather then a tournament which is a little more serious in intent. hard to say why they choose this approach, no background is really given.

I think the question should be more of a why are they doing this? Why did none of the "legitimate" avenues work for them that they decided to take this route?
 

zDom

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Definately not an "anti-MMA" thing.

It's an "anti adolescent idiocy" thing. They don't understand they are playing with fire. Choking isn't all that dangerous — IF you are in good condition. Armbars aren't all that dangerous — IF the guy doing the technique and the guy locked out have been trained to recognize when the elbow is locked and wait for the tap out / tap out.

etc.

But playing UFC at night in the dark in a backyard without proper training and supervision (and it looks like with alcohol involved)? :rolleyes: Recipe for a tragedy.

If they really have an interest, they should find a MMA gym and go for it.
 

rutherford

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These kids like I said are way better than the ones at the MMA school I go to, especially the 'state jujitsu champ' guy.

I don't think you know what you're looking at. Those kids showed a lot of enthusiasm, but that's about it. And a few fights that went on long after a ref would have called a stop.

I agree with Andrew that it's unlikely to ever go away. But somebody needs to explain to them what a pounding from mounted will do to somebody whose head is resting on the ground.
 

lostinseattle

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I don't think you know what you're looking at. Those kids showed a lot of enthusiasm, but that's about it. And a few fights that went on long after a ref would have called a stop.

I agree with Andrew that it's unlikely to ever go away. But somebody needs to explain to them what a pounding from mounted will do to somebody whose head is resting on the ground.

I guess you haven't been to my school. These kids not only were hitting hard at a good level of contact but at least the jujitsu guy had a good level of focus, something that in the ADD generation seems to be sorely lacking.
 

rutherford

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I guess you haven't been to my school. These kids not only were hitting hard at a good level of contact but at least the jujitsu guy had a good level of focus, something that in the ADD generation seems to be sorely lacking.

No. If I'd been to your school I wouldn't have had to qualify my statement as a "thought".

Level of contact isn't a measure of ability. In fact, it's usually the opposite. You won't even find professional fighters going at full contact every day. It's not sustainable and doesn't lead to good skill development.

Level of focus isn't a measure of ability. You can be totally focused on something that will never work. You can also be totally focused on bettering your chess game.

Finally, there were several jiu-jitsu guys in those clips. I assume you mean Cory, since he was first. Against Adam you can clearly see just how badly his stand-up game sucks.
 

Tez3

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Just thought I'd ask. A lot of kids don't want anything to do with anything that even hints at authority. Kids think they are invincible and immortal whatever they are doing.
 

lostinseattle

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Level of contact isn't a measure of ability. In fact, it's usually the opposite. You won't even find professional fighters going at full contact every day. It's not sustainable and doesn't lead to good skill development.

Level of focus isn't a measure of ability. You can be totally focused on something that will never work. You can also be totally focused on bettering your chess game.

Without hard contact there is no fighting. How do you stop or hurt somebody? You don't have to do that all the time, but if you aren't familiar with contact you won't know what you need to do in an actual altercation.

A lot of kids at my school are so spaced out that a lot of time they can't even pull off a technique because they're totally out of it. I don't know what's wrong with them. I've been assuming they just have ADD or something. Several of them have actually hurt themselves since I've been there just moving around the mat because it's like they have no body coordination or something.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 

MJS

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Fighting has been a part of growing up since people starte growing up.

Backyard boxing and wrestling have been done, now its MMA.

True.


I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it is something that we are not going to be able to make go away. Fighting is in our nature as humans, esspecially when young. Almost all kids play fight to some degree, eventually society programs it out of them. But playfighting is definately a part of growing up, some people just do it harder then others.

The only "new" thing is that now they can put videos up for the whole world to see.

True

Is it dangerous? Yes, but is it more dangerous then any number of "extreme sports"? I don't think so. Just looks more violent. I think trying this would definatly lead to being beat up, but anymore so then doing a face plant from trying to ride a rail on a skateboard?

Well, a few major differences are a trained ref and a trained medical staff. Who knows, maybe there were trained people present in those clips, I don't know.

Can they enter a tournament? Maybe, maybe they aren't 18 and no tournament will let them compete. Maybe they'd prefer to compete against there friends for fun, rather then a tournament which is a little more serious in intent. hard to say why they choose this approach, no background is really given.

True.

the question should be more of a why are they doing this? Why did none of the "legitimate" avenues work for them that they decided to take this route?

Good points. :)
 

MJS

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I guess you haven't been to my school. These kids not only were hitting hard at a good level of contact but at least the jujitsu guy had a good level of focus, something that in the ADD generation seems to be sorely lacking.

I'm curious...what is the level of people in question at your school? Are they beginners, intermediate or advanced? Depending on their level, there should be a progressive set of things that they should be working on. For example: If they're beginners, the first and foremost thing they should be working on is position. Without position, all the strikes and submissions are going to be useless. As another example: If they can't maintain good position, how are they going to apply the submission?

Mike
 

lostinseattle

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I'm curious...what is the level of people in question at your school? Are they beginners, intermediate or advanced? Depending on their level, there should be a progressive set of things that they should be working on. For example: If they're beginners, the first and foremost thing they should be working on is position. Without position, all the strikes and submissions are going to be useless. As another example: If they can't maintain good position, how are they going to apply the submission?

Mike

Mixed, but mostly low level. The classes are split into kickboxing on one hand and submission wrestling on the other hand. For submission wrestling it is like it sounds, working on various things. To get 'into position' as you put it, most of the time they start out in that position at the beginning of the technique, so they have to move their bodies from side mount, for example, to top mount or something.

At least 3 times kids in my class, usually overweight, have pulled something moving from one position to another before they even have tried to pull off a technique, and that was in just one week of classes. One guy had to quit for the rest of class for a pulled hamstring or something.

In addition, several people have pulled things in kickboxing as well, usually moving in stance or kicking. It's pretty sad. I'm quitting after this week.
 

MJS

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Mixed, but mostly low level. The classes are split into kickboxing on one hand and submission wrestling on the other hand. For submission wrestling it is like it sounds, working on various things. To get 'into position' as you put it, most of the time they start out in that position at the beginning of the technique, so they have to move their bodies from side mount, for example, to top mount or something.

Well, there ya go. Just answered your own question. If the people are low level, of course their skill is going to reflect that.

At least 3 times kids in my class, usually overweight, have pulled something moving from one position to another before they even have tried to pull off a technique, and that was in just one week of classes. One guy had to quit for the rest of class for a pulled hamstring or something.


In addition, several people have pulled things in kickboxing as well, usually moving in stance or kicking. It's pretty sad. I'm quitting after this week.

Well, one thing for sure, BJJ will get people in shape. :) I'm guessing that these people didn't stretch prior to the workout and if they did, they may want to spend a bit more time. Its natural to want to push yourself, but IMHO, it seems like these folks went a bit too far, too fast.

Mike
 

lostinseattle

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Its natural to want to push yourself, but IMHO, it seems like these folks went a bit too far, too fast.

Mike


No, they're not pushing themselves. Like the guy that pulled his hamstring. We just finished doing a rear naked choke or something, so now we're going to do something from mount.

My partner gets on top of me (I hate mount ... nothing's worse than nutriding), and this guy is getting into position next to us. It's like a train wreck in slow motion. He turns over, steps up, and pulls his hamstring just getting off the ground. He's a big guy, but the entire time he's looking like he's totally spaced out. Then he has to quit class for the rest of the day. He hasn't been back.

They're not pushing themselves. They did stretch. They're just the worst shape, most clueless people I've ever been in MA with. Not all of them, but most of them.
 

matt.m

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Yeah, no intention of "Anti MMA". I am not a fan of full contact unsupervised anything. I don't care if it is kids or adults, it is all just non sensical to me.

If I have a basement training session there is no sparring involved. I mean those involved are blue to dan ranking, with a lot of training time. Safety is, should and always will be paramount IMO.

Did people get hurt at the level I was competing in Judo and Wrestling? Yep, sure did. Was it minimal? Yes again.
 

adamtizzle

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hello, this is adam and i uploaded those videos on youtube. i happened find this forum under the links section of the video. any questions you would like to ask me? i am the only one out of the people in that video who has no MMA training.
 

zDom

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hello, this is adam and i uploaded those videos on youtube. i happened find this forum under the links section of the video. any questions you would like to ask me? i am the only one out of the people in that video who has no MMA training.

Yes, I have a couple of questions off the top of my head.

If all the participants (except you) have MMA training, why are you all competing in a backyard instead of in supervised legitimate events?

Do their instructors know they are doing this?

Do your parents know you are doing this?

Was there alcohol and/or drugs involved?

Was this event actually held at NIGHT near concrete and rocks? (the dialogue I heard on the tape seemed to indicate there were rocks and concrete that the participants nearly fell into several times)

Do you know that takedowns and throws on earth are not the same as takedowns and throws on a mat?
 

adamtizzle

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If all the participants (except you) have MMA training, why are you all competing in a backyard instead of in supervised legitimate events? we're all a close group of friends who are competitive and this concept seemed like a fun idea.

Do their instructors know they are doing this?
No, probably not.

Do your parents know you are doing this? Yes, this was held in my friends backyard. His parents were watching from a balcony to the left, although this can not be seen. My parents know I was involved but were not supportive of it.

Was there alcohol and/or drugs involved? No.

Was this event actually held at NIGHT near concrete and rocks? There was a very large grass area, wherever there were concrete or rocks is where the spectators stood. If the fight came near those areas, the spectators there would try and prevent them from hitting the rocks.

Do you know that takedowns and throws on earth are not the same as takedowns and throws on a mat? Yeah.
 

MJS

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Now, my questions that will follow are not meant to belittle you, but instead to get a better understanding of these types of clips and why people feel the need to do this.

If all the participants (except you) have MMA training, why are you all competing in a backyard instead of in supervised legitimate events? we're all a close group of friends who are competitive and this concept seemed like a fun idea.

Has anyone given the thought of entering a competition to do this? I mean, IMHO, its much more safer than what was shown on the clips. If injuries were to take place, was there someone on scene that could provide immediate care?


Do their instructors know they are doing this?
No, probably not.

If they did know, what do you think their opinions would be?

Do your parents know you are doing this?
Yes, this was held in my friends backyard. His parents were watching from a balcony to the left, although this can not be seen. My parents know I was involved but were not supportive of it.

Out of curiosity, why were your parents not supportive?? What were the thoughts of your friends parents, seeing that this was held in their backyard, and if by chance a serious injury were to happen, they'd most likely be held responsible? Did anyone ever think of that?

Was there alcohol and/or drugs involved?

Thats good to hear.

Was this event actually held at NIGHT near concrete and rocks?
There was a very large grass area, wherever there were concrete or rocks is where the spectators stood. If the fight came near those areas, the spectators there would try and prevent them from hitting the rocks.

At least some safety was taken into consideration.

Do you know that takedowns and throws on earth are not the same as takedowns and throws on a mat?

Out of curiosity, what is the skill level of the people involved? You stated that you are not actively training, but what about the others?

Mike
 

JBrainard

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Personally, one would think that they would find more out of entering a tournament rather than having their own event in the yard. To each is own I guess.

On that note, call me crazy, but it doesn't look too different from UFC to me. I would only hope that the kids that get KO'ed or otherwise hurt went to see a doctor the next day to make sure that all is well, but I doubt they did.
 

terryl965

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hello, this is adam and i uploaded those videos on youtube. i happened find this forum under the links section of the video. any questions you would like to ask me? i am the only one out of the people in that video who has no MMA training.


I have a question you said the kid parents was up in the balchony watching right, Do they understand by letting you do this under there supervision they are taking all legal actions for anybody getting hurt and could loose everything, did any of you even care about the legal issue with what you was doing.
 

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